Screen grab of General Assembly Moderator Heath Rada at First Presbyterian Church in Columbus, Ga.
According to the Bible, Christians are called to stone divorced people to death. At least, this is what the Moderator of the 221st General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) believes and has said at least three times in presentations to churches in the denomination.
In his Jan. 4 sermon at Montreat Presbyterian Church in Montreat, N.C., Moderator Heath Rada spoke of the divorced people in the sanctuary, saying “I don’t believe that we are called to take these people out into the streets in front of the church and stone them to death just because the Bible says we should do so.”
He repeated this statement during a Jan. 11 presentation at First Presbyterian Church in Columbus, Ga., and when asked where that could be found in the Bible, he referenced the woman who was caught in adultery and was brought before Jesus. He also said it could be found in Corinthians.
And two weeks later, Rada emphasized the point again in his sermon “To Listen and to Love” given Jan. 25 at Westminster Presbyterian Church in Greenville, S.C.
Montreat sermon: Reflections and Hope
Speaking to the issue of same-sex marriage during his Montreat sermon, Rada said that “I am not here today to affirm nor to deny the Biblical authority which speaks to gay marriage. But what I can tell you is that Biblical scholars as well as Christians of deep faith disagree on the wording which refers to these matters.”
Rada recalled a conversation he had with someone who asked if the denomination was “changing God’s definition of marriage by allowing same-sex couples to unite.”
Rada told the person that he was not the judge, God is, he then went on to say that “I believe that we need to be open to the fact that God might be revealing different things to us.”
The conversation continued with Rada’s speculation that there were likely a number of divorcees in the room, “but I don’t believe that we are called to take these people out into the streets in front of the church and stone them to death just because the Bible says we should do so. I don’t believe that women are not capable nor eligible to teach and preach and lead our congregations just because the Bible says so.”
Rada said that God’s word is “revealed to us in new and amazing ways every day. I am not going to be the judge on whether or not gay marriage is sanctioned by God. But I do believe we need to be open to exploring whether or not God is asking us to look anew at God’s word as we live in a world that is significantly different than the one in existence when these words were written.”
When asked to respond to the moderator’s comments, Carmen Fowler LaBerge, president of the Presbyterian Lay Committee said, “Well, I agree that we need to ‘look anew at God’s Word.’ I think the moderator’s comments indicate that pretty clearly as he seems to think it says things that it does not say. We should indeed return to actual study of the Word of God and full submission to it as we seek to live as people of Reformed faith – which is Reformed and always being reformed, by the Word of God. If you actually study what God says about sexual purity, holiness, marital fidelity, you cannot arrive at the conclusion that God blesses sex-same sexual practice; unless, you believe as the moderator expresses, God is malleable.”
Presentation in Georgia
During the informational lunch gathering at First Presbyterian in Columbus, Rada spoke of the authority of Scripture, and “How it hurts me when people say Presbyterians don’t believe in the authority of the Scriptures.”
“It hurts me because it makes it sound like we are lying when we take our ordination vows or when we say the Apostles’ Creed on Sunday,” he said, at the 24 minute, 27 second mark in the video. “It hurts me because it isn’t true of a single Presbyterian I know.”
However, there are different interpretations on how we understand God’s Word, he said. “As a Reforming body that keeps on moving, I want to give you an example.”
Rada said that he would guess that in all of those gathered at the luncheon, “there are one or two divorcees in this crowd. We don’t take them in front of this church and stone them to death, but the Bible says we should. But over the years we have learned that we have a responsibility to better and more clearly understand God’s Word and we have a need and responsibility and to try to be faithful and we try to understand both the context in which we live , the context in which the Scripture was written and who we are as people of faith.”
Later, during the question and answer period, Rada was asked a very direct question from a church member at the two hour three minute mark of the video.
“In both Galatians and Corinthians it does say that if you continue to practice things like drunkenness, homosexuality, lying, cheating and stealing, that you will not enter the Kingdom of heaven. That’s God speak. … How can our leadership say that it is OK for two men to get married or two women to get married? What has happened, when God says one thing and humans decide ‘Aww, well, God really didn’t mean it.’ … How has this happened? It’s simply not right.”
“Obviously, this is an issue that is still going on in great depths, and there is no simple answer I can give you,” said Rada.
He went back to the examples he gave about divorced people and African Americans in our country. Growing up, Rada said that he was “part of a church that desperately agreed that black people were not supposed to be a part of our denomination.” He spoke of his mother who was asked to be an elder in the church when women were first able to be ordained in the denomination and the “people who came out with wrath because the Bible says women not to e elders in church, and the Bible says that blacks not supposed to be part of the church, and the Bible say divorcees are supposed to be stoned.”
“I’m not saying that it is right for gay people to be married but I am saying it is a constant process of our searching,” he said.
At the end of the question and answer period, Rada was asked where in the Bible did it say divorced people should be stoned, was it when the woman was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus?
Screen grab of General Assembly Moderator at Westminster Presbyterian Church in Greenville, S.C.
“In part, that is one of the ones,” said Rada, adding that it was also in Corinthians, but he couldn’t remember where. “I should be able to cite it for you. I’m sorry.”
When pressed for the Scripture reference, Rada promised to get it to her.
Two weeks later, in the pulpit of Westminster Presbyterian Church in Greenville, S.C., Rada repeated the same message he gave at Montreat, almost exactly word for word No Scripture reference was cited as there is no passage in the Bible that says what the moderator said. (Comments are at the 27 minute mark of the video).
LaBerge was stunned the moderator repeated and then defended the mis-information about what the Bible does and does not say. She said, “I grant that the moderator may have mis-spoken on the fourth of January to the congregation at Montreat. But what stuns me, truly stuns me, is that no one called him on it. No one present in that sanctuary on that day knew the Bible well enough to say, ‘Mr. Moderator, that’s not right.’ False teaching clearly went forth uncontested. And apparently no one called him on it at Westminster Greenville either. In between those two events he got push back in Columbus, Ga. That’s how it should be. The people of God are supposed to confront and call out false teaching when they recognize it. I look forward to hearing the moderator offer a public retraction – and some kind of education for the people who have been led astray.”
LaBerge added, “It troubles me that this is a clearly a part of the stump sermon the moderator is preaching in advocacy of same-sex marriage. After January 11 when he was clearly confronted with the fact that he was preaching falsehood, he should have changed the script. He is now knowingly preaching lies and he should be called to account.”
Video of Rada at First Presbyterian Church in Columbus, Ga.
Video of Rada at Westminster Presbyterian Church in Greenville, S.C.
51 Comments. Leave new
I believe it was Mark Twain that said better to remain silent and be thought of an idiot than speak, and remove all doubt.
There’s also the old saying “if you say it enough times, folks will start believing it” this may be his motif. Remember, the “big heads” know more than we do.
Jesus’ plan: save the lost instead of stoning them –
see the woman at the well in Samaria and the woman caught in adultery – go & sin no more.
Umm, Matthew 19 and Mark 10 equate remarriage after divorce with adultery. Leviticus and Deuteronomy specify stoning for adultery. Was that so hard to figure out??
When you believe that scripture is “nevertheless the words of men” you do not owe near as great a fidelity to it.
And when this is an example of your moderator’s exegesis, there is no wonder that there is an exodus from the denomination.
Yet sadly, there are still those in the pews who have been relying upon PC(USA) leadership for their spiritual nourishment. They will slowly starve.
The connection between divorce and adultery in scripture is clear and that is something that divorcees have to pray about. But to connect this
to the blatant disregard of scriptures instruction in the area of homo-sexuality is a reach
I am a little reluctant to comment because I took my family out of the PCUSA two or three years ago. In other words, I don’t really have a dog in the hunt, as I once did. Also, I look at some of my previous comments, and they seem harsh to me now, although any sign of moderation will be interpreted by the other side as weakness.
I am sorry that the conversation has been reduced to same-sex marriage. It is much more than that. The deconstruction began 60 years ago, as I have said on several occasions. As for same-sex marriage, it must be remembered that the advocates did not take “no” for answer, when the early groundwork was being laid. They were rebuffed by the General Assembly, year after year, but it was only a matter of time before they began to weaken the foundation. They showed no respect for the Rule of Law, institutional governance, or tradition.
As for the moderator and his false testimony is concerned, the Bible is full of admonitions about false prophets. See, for example, Matthew 10:17, 2 Peter 2:1, Matthew 7:15, and Romans 16:8 (“For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites,and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naïve.”)
These false prophets are making it up on the fly. They don’t care. However, there is a penalty for false prophecy. They will care . . . later.
Well said, sir. It is starvation.
This boggles the mind. While it would be convenient to simply disregard such utter foolishness, we too often do just that. The result is that the many in the pews become confused. Yes, there is a vast difference in the laws of the old scriptures and a wonderful message of love in the new. However, God never did away with sin, nor did our Savior. Jesus spoke about divorce with these words; “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning”. So if some in our leadership try to equate our sin with the acceptance of divorce and our further acceptance of the sin of homosexuality, it is a symptom of the greater wrong of rewriting the word God to our own liking. The PCUSA is a failed institution and the work of Christ is being carried out in the faithfulness of local churches.
Rada did not say “remarriage” is worthy of stoning, he said divorce. You are assuming all people who get divorced get remarried.
Words are important in this discussion, don’t substitute remarriage for divorce and try to defend what Rada said.
Now that this important point about Rada’s speech is in the open, he needs to quote chapter and verse to defend what he is teaching. More importantly, people in the pews need to open and study the good book more often to see a falsehood when it is spoken.
Oh well then, that makes an ENORMOUS difference, doesn’t it?
Good for you then, holding the line on the remarriage front.
Oh wait, looking at ECO, EPC, PCA, etc. I guess not.
I believe the article pointed out that the Moderator kept referring to Corinthians and Galatians as areas where the Bible talked about stoning.
So, can you reiterate your statement based on those books, or are you just going to raise a red herring by not referring to them at all ??
Reading R.C. Sproul’s book “What is Reformed Theology: Understanding the Basics”. He quotes from Calvin about how the subordination of Scripture by the “Church” was a large issue for the Reformers:
Calvin said: “A most pernicious error has very generally prevailed — viz, that Scripture is of importance only in so far as conceded to it by the suffrage of the Church; as if the eternal and inviolable truth of God could depend on the will of men. With great insult to the Holy Spirit, it is asked, Who can assure us that the Scriptures proceeded from God .. [?] “. Institutes, 1:68-69 (1.7.1)
To use another quote: “Everything old is new again!”
Much like the debate between Daniel Wallace of Dallas TS and Bart Ehrman, I would sure like to see Carmen debate Heath Rada. Rada’s justifications and rationalizations one not “on point” at all. Such a public airing of the issue would sure do the membership of our denomination a great service. I bet Rada would not participate because he knows he cannot defend his statements.
Matthew 5 & 19 as well as 1 Cor. 7 do indeed permit re-marriage especially for the innocent party. Someone that believes otherwise has not been instructed in the teaching of God’s word. Hopefully they will study the Word and alleviate themselves of their ignorance.
Word salad
Times may change and culture may change but God doesn’t change and neither does His Word. And if you truly knew your Bible you would know that Jesus did not say do not judge…He said don’t judge hypocritically. You have to read the entire scripture not take one verse out of context.
Word salad is not a comment, just a snark. You are educated, and can do better.The fact is the commenter showed the hypocrisy of the original article.
Carmen was shocked. Really? This is all theater, signifying nothing.
God clearly changes in the bible which is what brought us from ritualistic animal sacrifice to the loving self sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Which of you eats pork? Shrimp and lobster or crab? Who wears mixed fabrics? Anybody have a husband that shaves or trims his beard? All biblical no no’s. The examples go on and on where modern self professed Christians ignore the biblical parts they disagree with while pointing their unforgiving fingers at others over some other convenient fine point. I forgive you though because I know what sin filled pathetic wretches we all are. When you conclude that God agrees with you, you can be very sure that you have made God in your own image and are most certainly wrong. When I see the crazed Muslim extremists beheading other Muslims and Christian believers I wonder why the Layman expresses no outrage or suggest no help. I guess it just doesn’t undermine the PCUSA to do so? If they were to start lopping off heads in your neighborhood, how would your resolve hold when facing your end? How many of you will deny him to save your worthless butts? I will deny him on my tongue unless my heart commits me to do otherwise. You folks seem to to think like those extremists most of the time. Stuck in the middle ages. Stuck in roles that were cast 2,000 years gone by. Stuck with words wrought by men from a time when the earth was held to be flat and supported by giant creatures. How could anything recorded on various scraps of vellum way back then and then interpreted and rewritten by other men a hundred thousand times ever be the least bit wrong? Stick with the die hard never changing extremists from whatever ilk and you can always assure each other of your own righteousness and Godliness before condemning all the others. You seem to believe in a God that has been dead for 2,0000 years. A God without change or life. That’s a real shame, Amen.-RB
And yet you keep commenting anyway, Peter.
Too complex for you? The top section is all tongue in cheek. I don!t believe God excluded women from spiritual matters. That was another man made clause to claim and hold more power. Evidently God has always been short and clear to the point so, men improvised a great deal with filler that benefitted them in some way they once percieved hundreds or thousands of years ago. As for my belief and assertion that the self named Presbyterian Layman Committee is nothing more than a for profit self serving scam publicist that terrorizes and undermines the good and just works and being of the PCUSA, the PCUSA IS TRANSPARENT IN ALL of THEIR ACTIONS, ALL THEIR COSTS AND INCOMES and outcomes. The votes and actions are ground up from each denomination. Not trickle down or strong armed. Where is the accountability for the Layman? Their income, their expenses, the salaries? Where is the accountability for actions, for their allegations and attacks? I believe them them to be the false prophets we are warned of. Voices peddling fear and hate in the name of Jesus for their own greedy profits. Once the gay issue finally dies they will seek another lightening rod issue to draw your interest and contributions. What will it be? There’s a lot of sinning out there. People with electrical implants? Very unnatural! Of course they didn’t see that one coming when the bible was pulled and patched together. Didn’t God know what was coming? Perhaps man just didn’t write it down? That’s sarchasim foLks! Take your iron brain lock off and really think for a change. -RB
To Robert Berry: true that…allowing for the well-deserved sarcasm at the top. A succinct summary of this entire enterprise.
I’mg beginning to think that the same gender marriage/divorce/adultey/sin naming began with our deconstructing of marriage a long time ago… adultery, divorce are all part of our devaluing of marriage and its holy image of the nature of God and Christ’s relationship with his church. In fact that last part is in our BCW Marriage Rite 1. I’m repenting of my devaluing of marriage that led to increased sin on my part….
It was precisely this argument by another denomination leader that led me to conclude I could no longer stay in PCUSA. You could make the exact same argument to justify Christians committing murder, robbery or anything else for that matter. Apart from faulty logic and perhaps intentional misunderstanding of Scripture, it’s just stupid.
Some Candid Observations:
1. 60% of PCUSA members were removed for being inactive! Hello, why are they inactive? Probably because the historic Presbyterian faith based on Scripture isn’t being preached or advocated. So sad. Nice spin though – he’ll probably keep his job!
2. He doesn’t know if Jews need to believe in Jesus to be saved? Uh, how about reading the book of Acts (and Romans 9-11) and ask Paul and Peter what they told the Jews! Oh my… (Oh, I forgot – the Jews in that day were different from the Jews today….)
3. Authority of the Scriptures – first, I imagine that he is Barthian (at best) on Scripture and that is most probably his method of interpretation, a very recent method of denying Scripture by the way. Very shaky. He just relativized Scripture, typical liberal and emerging church speak. Sounds good, says nothing, passifies an non-discerning audience (although this audience’s questions sound discerning).
4. On stoning for divorce, I am assuming that he has not had a course in basic hermeneutics or the nature of progressive revelation. Thankfully, in the church today, church discipline isn’t based on a theonomic, nationalistic/political approach, as was done with the nation of Israel (at the command of Jehovah by the way). And Levitical law is not in place beyond the “general equity” of application. This is a prime example of how to handle the Scriptures badly and is such a poorly informed analogy that he should be very embarrassed that he even alluded to this concept.
5.The practice of “marriage equality”: now there’s a phrase that muddies the water and can’t be found in Scripture anywhere conceptually or in any other way. Ask Jesus or Paul about “marriage equality.” Oh yeah, Jesus lived a long time ago and he thinking was culturally influenced. Hilarious! But let’s fight for “marriage equality” anyhow on the basis of social activism as a higher value than Scripture!
6. As to “Question 6”: “No TE or church will be compelled to authorize the use of church property for a marriage….” He says, “I have no indication whatsoever that that is going to change…” The PCUSA has, for the past few decades, been a top down denomination on the issues it wants to compel (including violating minister’s consciences); hence congregations leaving and members becoming inactive over the enforcement of top driven policies. I imagine that this policy WILL change.
7. Finally, instead of using the phrase “fundamental” churches (I think that is a positive phrase from the audience), how about calling them “Bible believing” churches. I thought the PCUSA didn’t like labeling and stereotyping people. Except for fundamentalists of course!
After 40+ minutes of listening, I can’t really take it anymore. Over the years (since the 70’s in my experience), the PCUSA has used sly denominational leaders and executives to convince the “trusting” people in the pews to remain faithful (and giving) to a increasingly faithless and worldly minded denomination and listening to him, “he’s good!”
So much for love, and good thing Christ intervened in Mary Magdalene’s behalf since those who wanted to stone her were
committing the same sin. So, If Rada is without sin, let him cast the first stone. IF.
It must be fun to write propaganda hack jobs. Take that screen grab of Rev Heath Rada. Could it possibly be more unflattering? I wonder how long it took to find it.
I try never to comment upon articles concerning the PCUSA since I am not a member of the denomination. The PCUSA has a long and great tradition it has long drifted away from in many, many ways. At the heart of the problem with the Moderator’s comments is a theological error. Christians are free from the ceremonial law of Israel and from its judicial laws, such as stoning as a punishment for a crime. We are not free from the moral law. To use this straw man as he did was either deliberate misleading or a lack of understanding.
If I had not read the Bible and asked what is it, what could or would you tell me? tks.
Oh ye gads, Rada just became the poster boy for profecting the round robin….wow, I would’ve got up and left within five minutes, and I’m for civil unions for everybody, but give churches an opt out clause if they don’t want to perform a gay marriage.
Then again after he was elected he could’nt expalain the anti Israel stance either, watching him try was tortue enough.
It has to be rough for him having to talk out of both side of his mouth.
Spiritual nourishment??? Where, from mad magazine? Icabod crane is hanging over the pcusa. Daily prayer is needed for the pcusa.
Once again, this guy proves how far afield from Presbyterian Christianity PCUSA has strayed in their quest for homosexial takeover of the denomination. Why would any congregation want to remain a part of this decrepit denomination?
My goodness, where is the love?
I have pondered often just why liberal Presbyterians hate conservative ones with such passion and vigor. As the various posts give witness too. I think it goes to the heart of the liberal mind and religious mindset of the old mainliners. Their Achilles heal has always been their own sense of entitlement, and religious as well as moral superiority over those whom they address. In essence they think themselves the smartest in any room they enter. As witness the musings of our Moderator. They do not like push back and certainly do not like when their world view is questioned. Of course the Bible told the early Christians to stone divorcees, and the OT folks to kill adulterers because it came from the lips of “recognized” authority. Case closed, end of discussion.
I also think they are in pain, no one likes to see that which they love diminish and grow enfeebled and ossified over time. It is the sense of mortality, both corporate and personal, because so few have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, nor honestly believe He can still save them or change lives. The darkness at the end of their tunnel is simply more darkness.
The true evangelical believer wishes and prays for the salvation of those lost and the redemption of all, even those who persecute them and wish them ill. And I have been as guilty as others of throwing the mud about from time to time, at times shaming myself in the process. Coming off as a jerk. I have to own that, I am a sinner, not worthy or God’ grace. But at the end I pray for Mr. Rada and all who follow him, their prognosis at this current time is not going to end very happily, on a personal and corporate level.
Rada says we’re the most democratic church (pcusa) there is, yeah Rada tell that to the churches that want to leave with their own property. Rada the round robin.
The reference to stoning adulterers is from the Old Testament: – Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that commits adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death..”
And then in a reference to “The Law” by the Scribes and Pharisees in John 8, when they were testing Jesus.
John 8:5 “Now,in the Law, Moses has ordered us to stone such women to death. But what do you say?”
So what did Jesus say?
“When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said to her, Woman, where are those your accusers? Has no man condemned you?
She said, No one, Sir, she replied. And *I* do not condemn you either, said Jesus; go, and from this time do not sin any more.
I wonder who we, as Presbyterians, are most like with the way we are acting?
*Jesus? I think not.
*The Pharisees when trying to entrap Jesus? Sadly, yes for a few.
*The Pharisees when leaving one-by-one convicted by their own conscience? I suppose, yes for some.
*The woman caught in adultery? I think she best represents the human condition.
Finally, it’s pretty weak to see that someone who is trying to dismiss part of the New Testament by using Leviticus to defend their position. Equally ironically, those who take the position of defending the authority of scripture seem unaware that stoning of adulterers was a part of Moses Law.
In this specific case, Jesus rejected the law with His authoritative response.
Personally, I’m not quite sure that a denomination whose leadership has brought outright schism is in much of a position to speak with any credible authority. That’s why it’s being resolved at a congregational level.
While I appreciate your response in reference to adultery, when did Rada reference adultery in the Layman article? The topic he put on the table is divorce, let’s stay on TOPIC people.
Common people, Rev Rada was just making the same point about legalism that the apostle Paul made over and over again: That a legalistic reading of the Scriptures ends in death.
Hi Bob,
When? Please listen to the 27 minute, 45 second mark of the sermon video posted above upon which the article is based.
Moderator Rada says, “I also don’t believe that people who have committed adultery are to be taken out in the streets in front of the church and stoned, but the Bible say they do.”
By the way, thanks for making me feel like I was back at my home church. 🙂
The wages of sin is death! Immorality is an abomination to the Lord! The Lord destroyed by fire the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of their immorality! The Presbyterian Church USA and others are trying to legitimize immorality. The USA is on a downward slope for reasons which include immorality. How do you think the Lord of the Bible will judge the USA? Let me be very blunt-I think we all are in trouble, and if we don’t change our wicked ways, we should not be surprised by the judgement of a holy God!
Robert, you are mistaken. God is not dead. Jesus is not dead.
I could not agree with you more!!! The culture is now leading the church instead of the church leading the culture. The church stopped telling people in the pews what they NEED to know, a shift has been made to tell people what they WANT to hear!!
Here is another thought to consider. Lets assume that every State in America is not tripping over each other to pass same sex marriage laws…and lets assume we don’t see movies and television portraying same sex relationships as ‘normal’…would the Presbyterian church be out front on this issue and changing the Book of Order so that two ‘people’ regardless of sex can be married in the church? As I said before the church is being led by culture.
Have you ever heard of the psychological term “projection”, Peter? Because your post is a textbook example.
Yes, it does seem a little over the top to say “as the various posts give witness to” when all we see is Gregory himself calling someone an “idiot,” various other layman fellow travelers say “stupid” or “decrepit denomination,” and james h keeps repeating some phrase he seems to think is an insult, but i am pretty sure no one has any idea what he thinks it means.
**The Presbyterian Church USA and others are trying to legitimize immorality. The USA is on a downward.**
Rada and others will have their reward as taught in Revelation
chapters 20 and 21. Fear not, God will not be mocked; whatever a man/woman sows, that shall he/she reap.
Oh, for the good ol’ days in Georgia, when Heath Rada would have been escorted to the Greyhound station, given a one way ticket to Boston.
I am sure Mr. Rada is fine man, ethical in his own right, a loving husband. A pleasant, generous disposition. But I have to feel sorry for him. From the initial interview post Detroit he goes from one public embarrassment to another. One foot leaves the mouth, the next enters. As more or less the ‘face’ of the PCUSA, its sad to watch. like slowing down to see an accident. I could only get through the first 5-7 minutes of the download and had to turn it off.
His words, and the comments generated speak for themselves. But on many levels he is the gift, that keeps on giving.
Glad about that character reference, Peter Gregory. I was wondering if maybe the Jesuits were starting to come out of the woodwork. Early for that.
Why is anyone surprised that the moderator of an apostate denomination cannot quote scripture accurately. That is the definition of apostate. If you do not believe in the revealed word of God, then you are beholden to the lies of Satan.
This is not new.
Jesus quoted scripture to Satan when he was tempted. He quoted scripture to the Pharisees. The reformation was founded on return to the revealed Word.
Awake Sleepers!
If you remain in the PCUSA, your witness is contrary to the Kingdom!
There are several homes to go to. The PCA, the EPC, the Covenant Order!
I am so weary of reading and hearing the “my call is to be a witness in the denomination” That is an excuse to continue to witness to the cause of evil. Get some guts. Turn your back on that retirement pension that you will not get anyway.
Folks, this is SERIOUS. Babies are being killed. People are going to eternity without God.
It’s not a political game.
Wow, Mr. Berry, this comment is rather enlightening as to what you see wrong with orthodox Christianity. May I ask you two questions? 1) Are you an ordained elder/minister in the PCUSA? (I’m just curious, since they take clear vows as to the role of Scripture in their lives.) 2) You seem very sure of your views (I’m guessing you feel God must agree with you), so are you not doing what you accuse your “opponents” of? What is it that you appeal to as your final authority in decreeing the judgments you make with such vehemence about right and wrong? How do other people access that same authority with the same degree of conviction you have about it? In other words, why should anyone believe any of your comments about right and wrong unless they are built on some objective authority greater than mere opinion? Thank you for taking time to share further to help me understand where you are coming from.
As a humble parishioner and lifelong Presbyterian, whose religious education has been exclusively in the closest Presbyterian Church, or Protestant Church or Chapel, when no Presbyterian Church was available, I have a small question.
Did not Our Lord say that stoning may occur when someone present is without sin to throw the first stone, and not otherwise?
Have not all sinned and fallen short, and is it not therefore true that no one without sin will ever be present, and hence, did not our Lord absolutely forbid stoning?
Did not Our Lord say that we were to love the Lord our God with all our heart and all our soul and all our strength. And did he not say that should love our neighbor as ourselves. And did he not further say that those two commandments were the entirety of the Law and the Prophets?
That all the rest of the old Testament was mere commentary?
Do not the Gospels and Acts and the Epistles supercede the old Testament in question of seeming disagreement, save for our obligation to respect the strictures other Christians follow – so long as they are not in contravention with the Great and the Second Commandment from Our Lord?
Has the worthy ordained gentleman under discussion lost his reason and faith in the truth of the Gospel? Perhaps he was incapacitated by something? Or did I get it wrong for the last 65 years?
It is a puzzlement.
In any case, he is in error, straining to make a point past reason or faithfulness to the Gospel. Point being promulgated not with standing. Of that I am sure.
Here I stand. God help me.