June 20, 2015,a day that will live in infamy. The will rejoice thinking, we now have equality when the opposite is in view. There is nothing equal about being Gay, if anything, the unequal yoked people.
We are told not to hate while hatred is from the gays themselves, and hope???? Only through the shed blood of Christ can Gays be healed from their sins by repenting of their abomination, accepting Christ as Savior and Lord.
If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1 John 4:20. And those who wish to claim they love the sinner but hate the sin have no scripture in the inerrant Word that says that. But the Word does say in Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Considering renewing my vows. Wife and I were married in the Presbyterian church in June of 1984.
We’ve left the PCUSA because of it’s changing view on homosexuality and marriage. We’ve found a church that teaches Bible based theology and one that does NOT try to twist the Word of God to suit the vagaries of man.
One point that is often overlooked in the process within PC(USA): there is not, or at least doesn’t have to be, a “democratic” vote of the membership to change the BOO. As the polity is designed, this change can & has happened with no one knowing for sure what the membership actually believes/wants, e.g. there was no vote in our congregation & no one knows how the commissioner from our congregation voted at Presbytery.
By the way, the gays of all stripes should be warned if ISIS ever controls the USA and or world, the life of Gays will not be worth a penny, nickel, dime or dollar. So, if the gays are smart, they need to support Christianity.
Okay; let’s back up just a tad in Romans to Chapter 1:24ff “…Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because the exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator…to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed for passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and in receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”
InterestING word use .hysteria, love,and hope.can you give an example from the bible of someone acting hysterically and was that action aplauded or condemned ?.love in the bible is always defined as conformity to God’s law .as for hope what do you expect to happen ..do you believe that God in His sovereignty is going to change all of the hearts of the homosexuals or could it be that the rise of the homosexual is God giving people over to sin divinly giving them reprobate minds as a punishment for other sins.
@ Dave – what is your point? This is by definition what Presbyterian means – rule (governance) by Presbyters – not by members (that is congregationalist, e.g. Baptists).
Liberalism says if a person wants to change their sex, go for it, who are you, a right winged, narrow minded, bigot. Liberalism does not know right from wrong. Remember the 10 commandments??? Liberalism tells us to take in Mexicans, the vermin, scum of the earth.
by the way, Sen. Mitch, the ditch, McConnel said, ““I think we’re failing as a country when the best thing we can offer to a scared young mom-to-be is a referral to Planned Parenthood. Is that the best we can do? I don’t think so,” said McConnell.
Look what Liberalism has produced today, “One nation under man, not God.”” The Judgment is coming, and when it does, millions will be killed.
Your comment about Mexicans is so wretched that I am not at all surprised you do not post using your real name. Your words do not reflect the heart of one who has accepted Christ.
There seems to be little or no doubt what scripture says about homosexuality. The debate lies solely on convincing people to accept it as “natural”. The only way that can happen is by convincing those who confess “the authority of scripture” to now deny its authority. In the PC(USA), the humanist theology is winning – not by convincing others to have faith in God – but by convincing them to have faith in man.
Love can be giving a warning about the consequences of acting against God’s best intention for His creation. Whom the lord loves, He chastens.
Do not mistake letting people do what ever they want……(though God does) as love. All sin separates us from God, but some sins will be more harmful in this regard and consequences may make a person unable to relate to God. A deeper love will not with hold sound teaching because it may save some from trouble. This is wise and loving, to be a truth teller
Out of a concern for others Spiritual health, even their sour.
Dave, my understanding of being Presbyterian is that God’s will is discerned by majority vote of the session elders. Then the elders go to Presbytery and they should vote according to their session majority..
There is an individual conscience and a collective conscience that keeps the church in check, both are important.
The will of God is then discerned by the group vote of Presbyters and the majority reflects the will of God. Following this method, the conscience of the community reflects God’s will.
Some at the Presbytery have subverted the will of God by orchestrating sending people to GA ……people who do not reflect the majority vote of their Presbytery. They then say the representative votes their conscience, instead of the discerned majority conscience in the Presbytery.
This is a serious sin against God, and is the main reason the direction of the PCUSA is in chaos with divisions and membership loss.
Just pointing out what Liberalism has done to this nation, and for decades, marsh mellow, cream puff so called preaches ignoring what we are seeing today. I am not alone in what I wrote, just pointing out a fact.
I do apologize for targeting one specific group which is not fair, and I could be considered a bigot, and for that, I am sorry. If anyone wants to be a citizen of the USA, go through proper channels rather than cross the boarder looking for hand outs,citizenship not only from the tax payers of the USA, but from the Federal Government.
Thanks for apologizing. Accepted. Yes, thousands of hard core criminals are being unleashed on the USA through illegal immigration. As Christians we need to show compassion, yet demand Washington DC follow the rule of law and protect citizens’ safety and rights, (and our tax dollars). Also costing us dearly is our cities, states and federal governments racking up tens of trillions of credit card debt, which is unethical and dangerous conduct.
We don’t hate homosexuals; we love the sinner, hate the sin; and ‘fear the Lord’ and His Holy Word and His Judgment; particularly fear what Christian ceremonies take place at the altar of God within a Presbyterian House of God. Should I have state ‘formerly’ Presbyterian House of God?
By nature, or naturally, we’re all depraved, greedy, selfish, slothful, rebellious, lustful sinners. Only by hearing the Word of God, understanding our fallen nature, repenting, and humbly seeking Jesus’ forgiveness, can we be assured of His mercy and grace. Many homosexuals claim they ‘were born this way’ it really doesn’t matter in Christ’s Kingdom; we’re all either born that way or allow evils of the world to mold us, or turn us away, from God. Warning; to continue in sin, boast about it, influence others to sin, etc. is direct conflict with God and judgment will happen.
@ L. Lee – see F-3.0204 Seek and Represent the Will of Christ:
Presbyters are not simply to reflect the will of the people, but rather to seek together to find and represent the will of Christ.
For me the bridge was crossed when the constitution was amended to allow pastors, elders and deacons to engage in adultery and fornication. Homosexuality is a subset of that, but the implications of what PCUSA did were much greater than homosexuality. That was the breaking point for many churches who have left, not just homosexuality.
L. Lee illustrates one problem with the PCUSA over the years: People who don’t understand Presbyterianism.
Commissioners to Presbytery and General Assembly are *not* representatives. (That’s why they’re called “commissioners” and not “representatives.”) They are in no way obligated to vote the way their sessions want them to vote. They are only obligated to vote their conscience.
I think if more people actually understood the PCUSA and our polity, there would be less conflict in the PCUSA. Lots of people who clearly misunderstand the polity cause most of the problems.
I believe you’ve made that comment twice on this web site. Had it been only once, you might have the excuse of making a puerile comment in haste, and regretting it after it was too late.
My church is going through discernment to stay or go with PC USA.
The conflict and deliberation is now on the church sessions, the congregations membership and pastors at the local level. That is the very real consequence of the actions of GA Leaders.
The only way for me to let go of anger and hysteria, is to totally trust that God is in charge, to pray more, to surrender more, and turn discouragement into obedience to what I discern God’s call is.
Being a Christian is serious business…God is God, we are not….
When I look at the denomination, I think, they won the battle on this issue, but they are losing so much in the process. I witness hardened hearts to God’s truth. There will be great loss to this denomination! The sexuality/marriage issue is only a symptom of the deeper problems.
I am so thankful to have others to stand with
as we watch what God is doing. If the trajectory of the denomination continues as it has, it will force more people out. Maybe that is the reformation God desires? Praise to God alone, even in the midst of
uncertainty.
@ L. Lee – “they should vote according to their session majority” – incorrect, they should vote according to their individual discernment, which should be informed by the group process – however, it is not bound by the group! – e.g. …we also believe that there are truths and forms with respect to which men of good characters and principles may differ. And in all these we think it the duty both of private Christians and societies to exercise mutual forbearance toward each other.
My wife asked me, “Will this abomination be overturned any time soon??? I said, “Yes,” the 7 year period tribulational period will finish off the wicked who reject Christ, judged during the Great White Throne judgment after the tribulation, and cast into the eternal lake of fire, Rev. 20 and ch. 21. The gays, unhappy and unfulfilled can have their fun now, but in the end, eternal suffering.
All that fighting over property w/ the PCUSA, just to have the government take 40% of it in perpetuity (income taxes, property taxes, donations not being deductible) when you lose your tax exemptions over this and get treated like a bakery that won’t bake a cake for a gay couple. Think of all the secular government you’ll be funding. It’s almost like having all that money and property your taxable selves will do more harm than keeping it in the tax exempt PCUSA.
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” (Mt. 22.21)
If the Federal Government revokes tax-exempt status of churches that refuse to host same-gender “weddings”, then so be it. If my contributions to said churches are no longer deductible from my income taxes, that will not mean that I will reduce my contributions by so much as a cent.
But the Presbyterian Church (USA) did not contribute any funding toward the purchase or maintenance of my church’s property, and thus it has no right to said property, its immoral trust clause notwithstanding.
For the past 240 or so years of the Republic the cultural and religious issue surrounding “marriage” has been this. Who owns the concept and institution, the church or state? Is the church free to define such in their own terms, or is marriage a matter of contact law, subject to both state and federal regulation? The SC has decided to put that question to rest.
“Marriage” is an act of the secular state, and being such is free to define in whatever terms and forms it chooses to do. Much like interstate trucking or commerce, marriage is subject to federal, vice local or state oversight. Churches, or houses of worship can either endorse, support, engage in the state’s business, or not. Submit or resist.
The ball is now in the court of the church and people or institutions of faith. Make no mistake the battle ground shifts to religious expression, freedom of speech. The forces of secular paganism, PCUSA included, will stop at nothing short of the complete removal of faith, faith expression, freedom of thought from the public square and public life. In essence to criminalize those who disagree and those who would resist such state actions.
The most important new items of yesterday was not anything related to the SC and marriage. But the transglobal terrorist attacks of radical Islam. As we have learned from the Islamic world, when you make certain expressions of faith either illegal or criminalize the expressions of such, stuff happens. I think the SC actions on both the ACA and LGBT issues is a gift to all those who confess God, Christ, Scriptures over the secular state. The real Culture War is just getting started.
There are a lot of churches and people who are leaving the PCUSA.
Why? I think it is because the commissioners ( ok…not representatives) chosen to go to GA are not in agreement with the members in the pew. There are real consequences to what happened at GA. The loss of churches and members are part of that.
The megalomaniacs now will try to oppress the Body of Christ, Bible believing Believers to its way of what church ought to be. The nut cases now will work on destroying what cannot be destroyed. Matt. 16:16
New churches should not apply for 501c3 as well as established, thus, we pay our taxes, and the nut cases in government will have a hard time convicting us of whatever they want.
“When I look at the denomination, I think, they won the battle on this issue, but they are losing so much in the process.”
In my opinion, They may have won a battle, but they will lose the war. God Almighty cannot and will not be fooled by man. The door to preach the Gospel is now wide open. Let’s not fear, let’s preach His Word now louder than ever.
That’s fine, L.Lee. You’re totally welcome to your opinion. However, traditional, historic Presbyterianism does not require commissioners to agree with anyone, but only to be guided by their conscience and the will of the Holy Spirit. It’s fine to believe that commissioners are supposed to be representatives, if you wish, just understand that is not now, nor has it ever been part of Presbyterian polity.
Perhaps you’d be happier as a congregationalist? What you’re suggesting is closer to their polity.
**If the Federal Government revokes tax-exempt status of churches that refuse to host same-gender “weddings”, then so be it**
I agree, they, the Feds. can take their 501c3 and shove it; we should not be tax exempt since the Feds. will think they own us. We are the people who own the Government, and we should dictate what ought to be; it will take work, guts and sweat which the Body of Christ can do.
To revoke tax exemption from churches is tantamount to “respecting the establishment.” If we pay taxes on church property, churches must therefore be fully represented. Pulpits would be perfectly free to politicize at will, with no expectation of governmental redress. The Church has always been respected as a separate authority from that of the State. We answer to a higher power than SCOTUS. SCOTUS too needs to acknowledge their humility “under God.”
49 Comments. Leave new
June 20, 2015,a day that will live in infamy. The will rejoice thinking, we now have equality when the opposite is in view. There is nothing equal about being Gay, if anything, the unequal yoked people.
We are told not to hate while hatred is from the gays themselves, and hope???? Only through the shed blood of Christ can Gays be healed from their sins by repenting of their abomination, accepting Christ as Savior and Lord.
To me, marriage is between a woman and a man period.
If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1 John 4:20. And those who wish to claim they love the sinner but hate the sin have no scripture in the inerrant Word that says that. But the Word does say in Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Considering renewing my vows. Wife and I were married in the Presbyterian church in June of 1984.
We’ve left the PCUSA because of it’s changing view on homosexuality and marriage. We’ve found a church that teaches Bible based theology and one that does NOT try to twist the Word of God to suit the vagaries of man.
One point that is often overlooked in the process within PC(USA): there is not, or at least doesn’t have to be, a “democratic” vote of the membership to change the BOO. As the polity is designed, this change can & has happened with no one knowing for sure what the membership actually believes/wants, e.g. there was no vote in our congregation & no one knows how the commissioner from our congregation voted at Presbytery.
By the way, the gays of all stripes should be warned if ISIS ever controls the USA and or world, the life of Gays will not be worth a penny, nickel, dime or dollar. So, if the gays are smart, they need to support Christianity.
Okay; let’s back up just a tad in Romans to Chapter 1:24ff “…Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because the exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator…to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed for passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and in receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.”
InterestING word use .hysteria, love,and hope.can you give an example from the bible of someone acting hysterically and was that action aplauded or condemned ?.love in the bible is always defined as conformity to God’s law .as for hope what do you expect to happen ..do you believe that God in His sovereignty is going to change all of the hearts of the homosexuals or could it be that the rise of the homosexual is God giving people over to sin divinly giving them reprobate minds as a punishment for other sins.
@ Dave – what is your point? This is by definition what Presbyterian means – rule (governance) by Presbyters – not by members (that is congregationalist, e.g. Baptists).
Everyones missing the point here, as of tomorrow Caitlyn Jenner will be able to marry whoever he/she wants in a pcusa church Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh.
“True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated–and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t.” Chuck Colson
Liberalism says if a person wants to change their sex, go for it, who are you, a right winged, narrow minded, bigot. Liberalism does not know right from wrong. Remember the 10 commandments??? Liberalism tells us to take in Mexicans, the vermin, scum of the earth.
by the way, Sen. Mitch, the ditch, McConnel said, ““I think we’re failing as a country when the best thing we can offer to a scared young mom-to-be is a referral to Planned Parenthood. Is that the best we can do? I don’t think so,” said McConnell.
Look what Liberalism has produced today, “One nation under man, not God.”” The Judgment is coming, and when it does, millions will be killed.
1 man and 1 women only.
Your comment about Mexicans is so wretched that I am not at all surprised you do not post using your real name. Your words do not reflect the heart of one who has accepted Christ.
There seems to be little or no doubt what scripture says about homosexuality. The debate lies solely on convincing people to accept it as “natural”. The only way that can happen is by convincing those who confess “the authority of scripture” to now deny its authority. In the PC(USA), the humanist theology is winning – not by convincing others to have faith in God – but by convincing them to have faith in man.
Love can be giving a warning about the consequences of acting against God’s best intention for His creation. Whom the lord loves, He chastens.
Do not mistake letting people do what ever they want……(though God does) as love. All sin separates us from God, but some sins will be more harmful in this regard and consequences may make a person unable to relate to God. A deeper love will not with hold sound teaching because it may save some from trouble. This is wise and loving, to be a truth teller
Out of a concern for others Spiritual health, even their sour.
Dave, my understanding of being Presbyterian is that God’s will is discerned by majority vote of the session elders. Then the elders go to Presbytery and they should vote according to their session majority..
There is an individual conscience and a collective conscience that keeps the church in check, both are important.
The will of God is then discerned by the group vote of Presbyters and the majority reflects the will of God. Following this method, the conscience of the community reflects God’s will.
Some at the Presbytery have subverted the will of God by orchestrating sending people to GA ……people who do not reflect the majority vote of their Presbytery. They then say the representative votes their conscience, instead of the discerned majority conscience in the Presbytery.
This is a serious sin against God, and is the main reason the direction of the PCUSA is in chaos with divisions and membership loss.
Just pointing out what Liberalism has done to this nation, and for decades, marsh mellow, cream puff so called preaches ignoring what we are seeing today. I am not alone in what I wrote, just pointing out a fact.
I do apologize for targeting one specific group which is not fair, and I could be considered a bigot, and for that, I am sorry. If anyone wants to be a citizen of the USA, go through proper channels rather than cross the boarder looking for hand outs,citizenship not only from the tax payers of the USA, but from the Federal Government.
you all do not have to stay in a sinking ship and that is the PCUSA. Simply leave and do not look behind. They will continue to dig their own grave.
Thanks for apologizing. Accepted. Yes, thousands of hard core criminals are being unleashed on the USA through illegal immigration. As Christians we need to show compassion, yet demand Washington DC follow the rule of law and protect citizens’ safety and rights, (and our tax dollars). Also costing us dearly is our cities, states and federal governments racking up tens of trillions of credit card debt, which is unethical and dangerous conduct.
We don’t hate homosexuals; we love the sinner, hate the sin; and ‘fear the Lord’ and His Holy Word and His Judgment; particularly fear what Christian ceremonies take place at the altar of God within a Presbyterian House of God. Should I have state ‘formerly’ Presbyterian House of God?
By nature, or naturally, we’re all depraved, greedy, selfish, slothful, rebellious, lustful sinners. Only by hearing the Word of God, understanding our fallen nature, repenting, and humbly seeking Jesus’ forgiveness, can we be assured of His mercy and grace. Many homosexuals claim they ‘were born this way’ it really doesn’t matter in Christ’s Kingdom; we’re all either born that way or allow evils of the world to mold us, or turn us away, from God. Warning; to continue in sin, boast about it, influence others to sin, etc. is direct conflict with God and judgment will happen.
A denomination of death.
@ L. Lee – see F-3.0204 Seek and Represent the Will of Christ:
Presbyters are not simply to reflect the will of the people, but rather to seek together to find and represent the will of Christ.
Yes, yes! I agree!
For me the bridge was crossed when the constitution was amended to allow pastors, elders and deacons to engage in adultery and fornication. Homosexuality is a subset of that, but the implications of what PCUSA did were much greater than homosexuality. That was the breaking point for many churches who have left, not just homosexuality.
L. Lee illustrates one problem with the PCUSA over the years: People who don’t understand Presbyterianism.
Commissioners to Presbytery and General Assembly are *not* representatives. (That’s why they’re called “commissioners” and not “representatives.”) They are in no way obligated to vote the way their sessions want them to vote. They are only obligated to vote their conscience.
I think if more people actually understood the PCUSA and our polity, there would be less conflict in the PCUSA. Lots of people who clearly misunderstand the polity cause most of the problems.
To me, marriage is only between a man named Adam and a woman named Eve. That’s the definition! It’s right there in the Bible!
I believe you’ve made that comment twice on this web site. Had it been only once, you might have the excuse of making a puerile comment in haste, and regretting it after it was too late.
My church is going through discernment to stay or go with PC USA.
The conflict and deliberation is now on the church sessions, the congregations membership and pastors at the local level. That is the very real consequence of the actions of GA Leaders.
The only way for me to let go of anger and hysteria, is to totally trust that God is in charge, to pray more, to surrender more, and turn discouragement into obedience to what I discern God’s call is.
Being a Christian is serious business…God is God, we are not….
When I look at the denomination, I think, they won the battle on this issue, but they are losing so much in the process. I witness hardened hearts to God’s truth. There will be great loss to this denomination! The sexuality/marriage issue is only a symptom of the deeper problems.
I am so thankful to have others to stand with
as we watch what God is doing. If the trajectory of the denomination continues as it has, it will force more people out. Maybe that is the reformation God desires? Praise to God alone, even in the midst of
uncertainty.
Yeah, Robert, you’ve made that comment twice on this website! That’s a sin according to Don who has been appointed to patrol such things.
http://layman.wpengine.com/a-look-at-religious-denominations-official-stances-on-gay-marriage/
@ L. Lee – “they should vote according to their session majority” – incorrect, they should vote according to their individual discernment, which should be informed by the group process – however, it is not bound by the group! – e.g. …we also believe that there are truths and forms with respect to which men of good characters and principles may differ. And in all these we think it the duty both of private Christians and societies to exercise mutual forbearance toward each other.
My wife asked me, “Will this abomination be overturned any time soon??? I said, “Yes,” the 7 year period tribulational period will finish off the wicked who reject Christ, judged during the Great White Throne judgment after the tribulation, and cast into the eternal lake of fire, Rev. 20 and ch. 21. The gays, unhappy and unfulfilled can have their fun now, but in the end, eternal suffering.
All that fighting over property w/ the PCUSA, just to have the government take 40% of it in perpetuity (income taxes, property taxes, donations not being deductible) when you lose your tax exemptions over this and get treated like a bakery that won’t bake a cake for a gay couple. Think of all the secular government you’ll be funding. It’s almost like having all that money and property your taxable selves will do more harm than keeping it in the tax exempt PCUSA.
“Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” (Mt. 22.21)
If the Federal Government revokes tax-exempt status of churches that refuse to host same-gender “weddings”, then so be it. If my contributions to said churches are no longer deductible from my income taxes, that will not mean that I will reduce my contributions by so much as a cent.
But the Presbyterian Church (USA) did not contribute any funding toward the purchase or maintenance of my church’s property, and thus it has no right to said property, its immoral trust clause notwithstanding.
For the past 240 or so years of the Republic the cultural and religious issue surrounding “marriage” has been this. Who owns the concept and institution, the church or state? Is the church free to define such in their own terms, or is marriage a matter of contact law, subject to both state and federal regulation? The SC has decided to put that question to rest.
“Marriage” is an act of the secular state, and being such is free to define in whatever terms and forms it chooses to do. Much like interstate trucking or commerce, marriage is subject to federal, vice local or state oversight. Churches, or houses of worship can either endorse, support, engage in the state’s business, or not. Submit or resist.
The ball is now in the court of the church and people or institutions of faith. Make no mistake the battle ground shifts to religious expression, freedom of speech. The forces of secular paganism, PCUSA included, will stop at nothing short of the complete removal of faith, faith expression, freedom of thought from the public square and public life. In essence to criminalize those who disagree and those who would resist such state actions.
The most important new items of yesterday was not anything related to the SC and marriage. But the transglobal terrorist attacks of radical Islam. As we have learned from the Islamic world, when you make certain expressions of faith either illegal or criminalize the expressions of such, stuff happens. I think the SC actions on both the ACA and LGBT issues is a gift to all those who confess God, Christ, Scriptures over the secular state. The real Culture War is just getting started.
I think you have nailed it, Mr. Gregory.
There are a lot of churches and people who are leaving the PCUSA.
Why? I think it is because the commissioners ( ok…not representatives) chosen to go to GA are not in agreement with the members in the pew. There are real consequences to what happened at GA. The loss of churches and members are part of that.
Thanks…your reply is helpful.
The megalomaniacs now will try to oppress the Body of Christ, Bible believing Believers to its way of what church ought to be. The nut cases now will work on destroying what cannot be destroyed. Matt. 16:16
New churches should not apply for 501c3 as well as established, thus, we pay our taxes, and the nut cases in government will have a hard time convicting us of whatever they want.
It is time to ask God for his forgiveness.
“When I look at the denomination, I think, they won the battle on this issue, but they are losing so much in the process.”
In my opinion, They may have won a battle, but they will lose the war. God Almighty cannot and will not be fooled by man. The door to preach the Gospel is now wide open. Let’s not fear, let’s preach His Word now louder than ever.
That’s fine, L.Lee. You’re totally welcome to your opinion. However, traditional, historic Presbyterianism does not require commissioners to agree with anyone, but only to be guided by their conscience and the will of the Holy Spirit. It’s fine to believe that commissioners are supposed to be representatives, if you wish, just understand that is not now, nor has it ever been part of Presbyterian polity.
Perhaps you’d be happier as a congregationalist? What you’re suggesting is closer to their polity.
Fred……thank you for this perspective and encouragement!
I so appreciate you comment!
**If the Federal Government revokes tax-exempt status of churches that refuse to host same-gender “weddings”, then so be it**
I agree, they, the Feds. can take their 501c3 and shove it; we should not be tax exempt since the Feds. will think they own us. We are the people who own the Government, and we should dictate what ought to be; it will take work, guts and sweat which the Body of Christ can do.
To revoke tax exemption from churches is tantamount to “respecting the establishment.” If we pay taxes on church property, churches must therefore be fully represented. Pulpits would be perfectly free to politicize at will, with no expectation of governmental redress. The Church has always been respected as a separate authority from that of the State. We answer to a higher power than SCOTUS. SCOTUS too needs to acknowledge their humility “under God.”