I came across John Shuck’s sophomoric “Shuck and Jive” website several years ago.
The title and content might easily have led me to believe that I had stumbled upon the PCUSA home page.
John served a purpose in our church, however, illustrating as he does the rotting core of our former denomination.
In that context, he reminds me of the anti-motivational poster that features a sinking ship with the caption “Have you ever thought that the purpose of your life might be to serve as a warning to others?”
Steve Jones, elder First EPC of Kokomo, Indiana
Satan will count the PCUSA’s support of abortion as a crowning achievement
Posted Friday, April 13, 2012
“Gretchen was a heroin addict” by Matthew Everhard makes somber and heartwarming reading. It also serves as a damning indictment of the PCUSA. Doubtlessly, Satan will count the PCUSA’s support of abortion as one of his crowning achievements. On the personal level, how exactly does one remain affiliated with such an organization and pretend that the stench of such a horrific policy can be avoided?
John Cowan Cartersville, Ga.
It is appropriate to debate whether or not the MRTI strategy is prudent
Posted Friday, April 13, 2012
Michael Zorn wrote a letter dated April 10, 2012, “MRTI chair has let misguided opinions affect his thought” that is in error on two points.
First, the decisions about divestment are made by the MRTI committee of which Brian Ellison is chair. Brian Ellison is presenting the committee’s decisions, not unilaterally making them.
Second Mr. Zorn writes:
“MRTI Chairman Brian Ellison recommends that Caterpillar be added to the divestment list, because it sells to Israel.”
This is incorrect. The PCUSA is not part of the boycott-divestment-sanctions movement. The PCUSA holds investments in dozens of companies doing business in Israel and has every intention of continuing to do so. The issue is whether or not companies we invest in are selling products and services for military use. Caterpillar, Hewlett-Packard and Motorola Solutions continue to sell products in support of non-peaceful efforts. That is the reason for recommending divestment from these three companies.
It is appropriate for us to debate whether or not the MRTI strategy, as directed by previous General Assemblies, is prudent, but it is incumbent upon us to accurately characterize actions taken and how they were made.
Michael Kruse, chair General Assembly Mission Council
MRTI chair has let misguided opinions affect his thought
Posted Tuesday, April 10, 2012
MRTI Chairman Brian Ellison recommends that Caterpillar be added to the divestment list, because it sells to Israel.
I might have given his position a second thought had he also mentioned that Caterpillar also sells to one of the truly repressive regimes: China.
However, Ellison bases his stand on his apparent hatred for Israel alone.
Based on the figures in the article, the $6 million held “across the portfolio” represents about 81,000 shares. The current dividend is $1.84/share, which brings in about $149,000 a year. The company is highly rated by Standard & Poors.
The PCUSA managers have a fiduciary responsibility to make good use of the funds in their care. See Matthew 25:14.
If Caterpillar were truly an unethical company, or served in a field we could not support (Jack Daniels, for instance), I could support Ellison. But it is not, and Ellison has let misguided opinions affect his thought. Michael Zorn Santa Ana, Calif.
To expect equity in the process when BOP’s position was obvious is unrealistic
Posted Tuesday, April 10, 2012
I read Carman LaBarge’s article in the current Layman (The gross inequity between policy and practice) with a steadily increasing sense of wonderment.
The tone and phrasing of her article led to the conclusion that the inequity between the approach to the two referrals to the Board of Pensions was grossly unfair.
This conclusion made me feel that the editor was either incredibly naive or possessed a serious lack of understanding on the way the real world works.
It should have come as little surprise that The Layman’s view on these two issues, not to mention the generally opposing view that The Layman takes with virtually all PCUSA positions, could create a condition where this type of apparent inequity could be commonplace.
To expect equity in the process when it should have been obvious what the BOP’s position was, is unrealistic.
It is likely to happen again. John A. Amos Sandy, Oregon
Where does justice and equality measure into the Gospel equation?
Posted Tuesday, April 10, 2012
There exists a certain level of understanding that a growing number of Presbyterians understand about the realities that Palestinian Christians live with day to day. Unfortunately, brother Jim Berkley either hasn’t been there to see it for himself or he chooses to side with the imperial Israeli forces that are stealing land, uprooting trees, destroying homes and nightly raiding Palestinian controlled neighborhoods to detain children in their unlawful detention centers.
Berkley’s description of people like me – a local pastor who has been to the region twice, while preparing another mission trip to the region – as a “political activist” is, of course an ad hominem attack.
To argue that the divestment question is primarily about our church’s return on investment is an affront to our constitutional commitments to be a church that doesn’t profit from the demise and detriment of others. The growing number of Jewish organizations and individuals in the U.S. and the peace movement within Israel are a glaring witness against any charge of anti-semitism. Even the retired Archbishop of South Africa, the Rev. Desmond Tutu, has said that what is occurring in Palestine is a worse form of apartheid than what he experienced in South Africa.
Just where does justice and equality measure into the Gospel equation for Berkley and this publication?
Will McGarvey Pittsburg, Calif.
Progressives enlarge the ‘tent’ far beyond the scope of where Jesus set it
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012
In response to the “big tent” folks who believe Jesus’ “tent” is incredibly huge, even all inclusive, one needs to remember Jesus’ encounter with a certain young rich man who asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life. In the end, Jesus pointed out that “you still lack one thing.” Luke 18:22 It was his wealth. In the end the man went away sorrowful because. Jesus never suggested it was not a barrier to eternal life, but precisely was a road block.
The rest of the story involves the quote that “with God all things are possible.” This is often misconstrued to undo what Jesus has just delineated. The “all things are possible with God” suggests that God has the power, within his perfect sovereignty, to change such stubborn hearts, as is the case of the man who rejected Jesus’ words. But that doesn’t change the fact that the tent size is set by Jesus.
Progressives err in much the same way and for the same things that they denigrate ultraconservatives. Rather than make the tent too small, they enlarge it far beyond the scope of where Jesus set it. That’s one of the major problems with John Shuck’s theology and hermeneutic. True Reformed theology avoids either extreme.
Some of The Layman readers and contributors are sorely chastised for twisting and distorting what people say, which may or may not be true. But how is the egregious twisting and distorting of Scripture that is common to progressives not an even more egregious thing? Twist my words if you like, but in terms of God’s word, avoid it like the plague. This is why Christians around the globe, within and outside our denomination, are abandoning the PCUSA like the plague. How sad. When Reformed theology was our center, things were well.
Rev. Steven L. Seng, pastor First Wyoming United Presbyterian Church, Torrington, WY
Enemies of ‘mere Christianity’ sever and ration the meaning of Scripture
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012
In the Gospel of John, Christ boldly challenged the accusers of the woman of ill repute by saying “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” He would go on to enjoin the woman with the words “Go in peace and sin no more.” It continues to amaze me how the enemies of what John Calvin called “mere Christianity” maintain the gall to sever and ration the context and meaning of Scripture to accommodate their ends and/or to justify toleration for the ethical license of themselves and their cliques. To my mind, this tendency is inestimably more harmful to the faith than those of transcendentalism and textual criticism spawned during the European Enlightenment. Sadly, these have led to what appears to be an enshrinement of the antinomian stances of people like Shuck and the Janet Edwards. Is there any limit at all to the arrogance of the radical left?
As God alone justifies the elect; per the kind intention of His will, we mortals are in no position to declare who is or isn’t worthy of the Father’s saving grace. At the same time, the elect are called to repent of transgression and it is the convenient omission of this charge that has led so many to disaffiliate from the PCUSA. This omission is an unspeakably deep betrayal of the charge of stewardship in which Christ has bid His Father’s chosen to engage. To this end, I thank God that He mercifully led me out of the Presbyterian Church (USA). I wonder why I stayed as long as I did.
Eric Wells Reaffirmed to the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, Youngstown, Ohio
Praying for peace for Jerusalem
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012
This is another reason I have abandoned PCUSA — conspiring with Rev Jeremiah Wright — I am still praying for peace for Jerusalem.
Rev. Pete Dingeldey
Saddened at the direction the PCUSA is headed
Posted Friday, April 6, 2012
I do appreciate your information, yet I am greatly saddened at the direction the PCUSA is headed.
Dr. Chester V. Joines, Supply Pastor
May God use Shuck to show that PCUSA leaders have abandoned the faith
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012
I am not sure what the big fuss is about John Shuck. I’ve had several conversations with him on his blog, and he has been an open ultra progressive/liberal for most of his career. He tends to be more open than some, but his views are consistent with theological progressivism/liberalism. The problem as I understand it, is that many in our churches really don’t understand what these views are. The utter heresies that John Shuck spews on his blog are the same heresies that are taught by the vast majority (with almost no exception) of tenured professors at mainline seminaries, including all the PCUSA schools. So why is it that anyone is surprised when an ordained pastor openly teaches those positions? I would characterize Shuck’s positions as wavering between agnostic humanism and forms of pan/en/theism, with some minor glossing of Christian language. He has long been openly teaching that nearly everything that might be considered as history in the Bible is mere myth and outright fiction. This is liberalism/progressivism! He well represents open progressivism/liberalism, which currently dominates the seminaries and the higher positions within mainline denominations, though many are still not as open about their positions as Shuck. I personally have found his open heresy refreshing. I pray that the Lord will use the works of Shuck to open the eyes of many within the PCUSA to the truth that majority of the leadership of a once faithful denomination has long ago abandoned the faith once for all delivered to the saints.
Rev. Adel Thalos, EPC Hixson, Tenn.
Shuck ‘represents your sect very well’
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012
After reading your article on John Shuck all I could think was, “Wow, maybe I should try going to church again.” I had the pleasure of attending a few of his sermons years ago at First Presbyterian and have been listening to his new NPR show lately and I think the man represents your sect very well. His honest approach to the questionable aspects of the Bible speaks to those of us born after man walked on the moon and saw the world as it is, who grew up understanding how DNA works, and who have never known a life not fundamentally altered by quantum mechanics (through electronics and computers). I’ve got no horse in this race, but if you hope to remain relevant in the modern world (and maybe even grow) you might want to reconsider closing your tent.
Tim Brent
There may be ‘different ways of being church than our heritage comfortably embraces’
Posted Thursday, April 5, 2012
Your commentary struck me as a profession of your faith and your concern that the church that is unfolding no longer mirrors those tenets of faithfulness that you hold so close.
Your words underscore for me the struggle between people who seem to speak two different languages of faith. To label one of them true and right (your path) and the other (someone whose emphasis and actions are different than yours) as false as a sign of our “… denomination’s apostasy …” might be a step too far.
In his Op/Ed piece in the LA Times this past weekend, Phillip Clayton, dean of Claremont School of Theology, speaks to this very subject. Not whether John Schuck, Janet Edwards and Brett Webb-Mitchell are emblematic of a church gone rogue but that there is an emerging church and perhaps different ways of being church than our heritage comfortably embraces.
The different ways members of our own denomination seek to understand and serve Jesus Christ, while perhaps suspect and not understood from your perspective, reflect a call and faith that produces fruit and allows integrity around their understanding of the living God as revealed in Jesus Christ and what Scripture is and is not for them.
It has been my experience that the people in the pews represent an extraordinarily diverse understanding of issues of faith, including the standing of Scripture. To presume that those in church leadership are not reflective of the many understandings of these matters, even those things that we refer to in our tradition as essentials, is naïve in my view.
I do not know the personal beliefs of any of the three individuals you highlight in your piece but I feel compelled to defend them. Your commentary struck me as disturbingly personal in the way it sought to portray their actions and words to diminish their standing in our faith community. I simply see no reason for it.
If certain ideas are abhorrent to you why not express your concern without labeling or seeking to tarnish those who seem to profess them? A good theological discussion or debate is always welcome, casting stones, not so much.
Mike Fazzini Fox Chapel, Pa.
‘I am truly saddened to see the state of our once Christ-centered denomination’
Posted Wednesday, April 4, 2012
Concerning the article, Unbelief unveiled, I am always amazed that leaders such as John Shuck are permitted to continue to minister within the PCUSA with their heretical teachings. He blatantly denies an essential tenant (if not of the PCUSA, yes of the Bible) that Jesus is the divine son of God and is God Himself incarnate in human flesh. It is no wonder that so many have lost faith and interest in being a part of our denomination. It is also incredible to read the statement of beliefs of some PCUSA churches which seem more like a Unitarian statement and not a Trinitarian statement as has been affirmed by the Christian church throughout the centuries.
As a person of Latin American background whose family came to Christ through the witness of Protestant missionaries from the USA I am truly saddened to see the state of our once Christ-centered denomination. I grieve at the fact that so many Latin Americans want nothing to do with us and have separated to be a part of other expressions of the Christian faith. Recently, I spoke with one of the coordinators of Brazilian ministry here in the USA, of the Outreach Foundation, and he told me that some 90 percent of the Brazilian Fellowships have left the PCUSA. This is tragic and embarrassing being that the Presbyterian Church of Brazil is a direct result of missionaries from our church who went and sacrificed to make Christ known to the Brazilian people. What makes things even worse is that the same denomination that makes a big deal of ethnic ministries (at least on paper) is the same one that cuts ministry to Latin American ministries in the USA as a first measure when money is tight. I can provide examples where Latin Americans were the first to be cut from seminaries and governing bodies once funds began to dwindle.
I am also sadly concerned that things will not begin to change soon or ever and some day the PCUSA will just be another group that faded in history with no or little influence on our culture for the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Praise God for those who continue to be faithful to the “faith once delivered to the saints.
Rev. Dr. Eriberto (Eddie) Soto Charleston, S.C.
No one should be shocked by the heresy and apostasy in the PCUSA
Posted Wednesday, April 4, 2012
Ah, Captain Renault is that your voice I hear echoing? “I am shocked, shocked to find” heresy and apostasy in this church.
I cannot believe that anyone is surprised by the heresy and apostasy running absolutely rampant in the PCUSA. With enormous hubris and arrogance, Shuck has been trumpeting his heresy in his blog and pulpit for years, aided and abetted by fellow travelers and non-believers in his “congregation” and his presbytery.
That he and Edwards (“… who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality…”) and others like them will be allowed to pollute and poison the processes and activities of the upcoming GA, and is a completely foreseeable result of the capture of our hierarchy by liberal progressives who are hostile to, and dismissive of, the Word of God. The orthodox believers remaining in this denomination should be prepared for even more apostasy in July. Shame on Pittsburgh and Holston for even sending these people to GA.
As for Maher; Really? You’re proud of that? More than anything else, your statement tends to validate Machen’s contention that Christianity and liberalism are incompatible.
Jim Yearsley Tampa, Fla.
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