The headlines since March 17 have been crystal clear: Presbyterians approve same-sex marriage. By a majority vote of its presbyteries (regional bodies), the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) ratified an amendment to its constitution sent down last summer by its General Assembly that allows ministers to perform and churches to be used for same-sex weddings. In immediate response, the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) affirmed its support for traditional marriage in hopes of avoiding the kind of confusion that often results when people hear the word “Presbyterian.”
Which Presbyterians did what?
The Presbyterian Church USA, based in Louisville, Ky., considers itself the “true” church when it comes to Presbyterians. They see all other Presbyterians as imposters and wannabes. If it sounds arrogant, it is. It is the PCUSA that boasts seminaries in Princeton, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Atlanta (Columbia), Louisville, San Francisco, Austin and Dubuque. Candidates who attend seminaries like Reformed (RTS) are often barred from ordination in the PCUSA until they do at least a year at an “official” seminary.
It is the PCUSA that boasts a multi-billion dollar endowment, the income from which funds much of its social witness agenda at the United Nations, in Washington DC and at the World and National Council of Churches. It is the PCUSA that is often in the news for its left-leading political advocacy. It is the PCUSA that considers the ordination of women an essential, allows for the ordination of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people, and now allows for same-sex marriages by its pastors and in its churches.
Parsing out the Presbyterians from one another is a little bit like parsing out Baptists.
15 Comments. Leave new
This was a very good article, not only was this a history lesson, or just a salute to our fellow reformed churches, but lay’s out our future together as we navigate the rough waters ahead, and yes, it will be rough, but God is faithful, just remember that “he who has begun a good work in you, will complete it to the very end”.
So I’m confused. Why is Carmen complaining because PCUSA supports the ordination of women, like herself? Why is anyone who disagrees with Carmen an “apostate?” What does “God will not be mocked” in this context even mean?
Ms. Laberge’s claim that “The Presbyterian Church USA, based in Louisville, Ky., considers itself the ‘true’ church when it comes to Presbyterians. They see all other Presbyterians as imposters and wannabes…” has absolutely no basis in fact. Making such a statement is dishonest.
The remainder of that paragraph cites the fact that the PC(USA) requires experience at one of several seminaries. Is THAT supposed to be the evidence for that absurd and dishonest claim?
The PCA, for example, would not ordain Ms. Laberge under any circumstances. Does that mean that the PCA considers itself the “true” church and any Presbyterians who would dare ordain Ms. Laberge are imposters and wannabes? Does the ECO consider itself the “true” church and any Presbyterians who would ordain LGBT clergy are wannabes and imposters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AJTo5_xcAQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Incest…. Oh wait, that is sin. Incest does not glorify God. Let’s see,…. stealing. No, that is considered sin as well….. Hmm, homosexuality,….. Oh, the Bible says that is sin….. And Jesus saves us from our sins, and we may be forgiven if we repent. And we turn from our sin and hate sin…… Oh wait!!!!!!!! The PCUSA Book of Order says homosexuality is not sin. It glorifies God according to the Book of Order. Hey, incest, stealing,….. Come on church, get with the times. Let us declare these as good too. Since homosexuality is declared good. Oh, wait a minute. It does not matter what sinful man decides is good. Only God’s word is our law. And Jesus defined exactly what marriage is. God combines two people into one. Not man. Wow, the Book of Order is not a bible after all is it. Oh my, we are in a bad situation.
I never go to pcusa.org for any reason. Least of all to post comments designed to goad and provoke those who are loyal to the denomination. That would be trolling. So — why are you here?
About the only relevant things coming out of “Louisville” these days is Bourbon and the Derby.
One admires, if that is the correct term, Ms. Leverage’s continuing judgments on which actions “repudiate the Word of God” and which of the numerous confessional statements represents “the truth” because most view the confessionals as various individual and group decisions about which doctrines to emphasize. Neither the confessions or the statements, mostly in the the OT, had when written down or composed any idea as to why a tiny proportion of humans in the wide range of sexuality and behavior would be attracted to the same sex. When the fetus is formed is when the multitude of factors, including genetic, are implanted to produce a human being. As is obvious, people do not come out the womb in identical form. We agree that all of us a need to repent, that reform is a changing factor as we learn more about the context and culture of the times when scripture was put into written form or composed. We also vote for humility because our views represent human interpretations as has been obvious from the beginning of Christianity.
So are you against–or afraid of–free speech, Don? Is this just supposed to be an echo chamber of the “like-minded.”
Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with either incest or stealing, both of which are human choices. Each of us is created in God’s own image, and my God doesn’t make mistakes.
I notice you didn’t attempt to answer any of my questions.
It looks like the gay marriage thing will be an ongoing source of adrenaline rush, righteous indignation, and fundraising opportunities for conservative entrepreneurs like Ms Laberge. Given the impressionability of her constituency, I expect she’ll do well.
Uh….all three are choices. Homosexuality is stated as an abomination before God. Any explanation such as “they are born homosexual” come directly from the pit of hell. It is a lie from Satan. Satan seeks to destroy this denomination from within. He is succeeding.
Well, RickyB, there are about 70 abominations listed in the Old Testament and one assumes that you obey all of them. And one is happy that you are unbothered by our increasing knowledge as to why human sexuality varies significantly. But don’t let knowledge interfere with your beliefs…
I am no friend of the institutional management PCUSA, but agree that Carmen does tend to grind the ax a bit to extreme on the matter of the process to 14f. As if it was breaking news, man bites dog event. The matter was never in doubt or the process of getting there. Move along.
But the content of the message and intent should not be confused with the messenger and her polemics. The messages is clear, as to the bedrock principles of the PCUSA they can best to described as a quivering mass of acceptability, its soul on sale to the highest bidder, and if you do not like the rules today, just wait for a year or two, they will change again.
There are steak presbyterians and jello ones? Guess what flavor is Carmen and what Gradey prefers. But he likes his with a bit of cream and sprinkles .
The Whitewater Valley Presbytery has published in official meeting minutes that are published on their website, “The true church are those that remain loyal to PCUSA.”