By Greg Garrison, AL.com
The Presbytery of Sheppards and Lapsley, a central Alabama group of churches affiliated with the Presbyterian Church (USA), voted 75-39 Thursday in favor of approving gay marriages.
They became one of about 38 presbyteries nationwide that have voted in favor of gay marriage, with 14 voting against. [Current vote total is 44-17] The change to the 1.8-million-member denomination’s official stance will become official if 81 of the 171 presbyteries vote in favor.
Commissioners representing churches from Tuscaloosa to Anniston and Birmingham to Montgomery debated the issue at their meeting at Covenant Presbyterian Church in Tuscaloosa.
Two dozen people, ministers and lay members, spoke on the issue, taking turns between for and against.
The Rev. Ed Hurley, pastor of South Highland Presbyterian Church, spoke against it. “We really don’t need to jump ahead of the Episcopalians on this issue,” Hurley said.
Related article: Presbyterians approve possible sale of Eastminster Presbyterian Church campus in Trussville
18 Comments. Leave new
Read a round up of the vote on amendment 14F and download a vote chart that’s updated frequently: http://layman.wpengine.com/voting-chart-amendment-14-f-changing-definition-marriage/
Well since it appears that the pcusa is following ecusa’s path, it may be time for both denominations to come up with ministries from both head quarters to minister to this new marriage reality.
I realize that the louisville sluggers never thought they could top the success of the “daughters of sophia” but they just stopped trying.
So in accordance with our churches “big tent” theology, I have come up with some ideas that might help them “minister” to their members and attract new ones.
For example, the churches should start a “swingers” ministry for any type of married couple who are swingers, or for some of the same married couples who like the kinky side of the room, the louisville sluggers could start a “fifty shades of grey” ministry, or call it the “chandelier swingers” minsitry if they want to class it up a bit.
I’ve been told by the big tent people who post here, I just throw brick bats, not anymore, I have given solid suggestions in accordance with the pcusa and ecusa big tent policies, and I hope they are taken as seriously as we take them.
If the news headline is “another PCUSA presbytery votes in favor of marriage redefinition” news-flash, due to 50 years of systemic decline, defections and schisms, the PCUSA is more ideological pure and less diverse than the 1965 version. Of course if there are less folks on the other side of the question in the system, the majority gets to be a bigger majority. Even in Alabama.
Want to investigate some real news, continue to press on the 1001 and Triennium fiascos. As well as the overt anti-Semitism of the PCUSA.
As far as this topic, nothing to see here, move along.
Since there was no PCUSA in 1965, it does not make much sense to talk about the 1965 version of the PCUSA.
Regarding “1001” – individuals involved with ethics questions had also been associated with groups such as FOP and PFR promoted by the layman.
And typical illustrations of these numbers issues: The church in PR highlighted in another post on this site as leaving PCUSA in “full obedience to biblical authority” with its 492 members had itself dropped 165 members in the previous year. The “Buffalo church” in another post on its way out of the PCUSA, so offended by gay marriage, has lost well over half of its members in the past few years. A disappearing group, unable to abide it new minority status in the denomination.
And just an FYI, Palestinians are also a Semitic people. It is not the PCUSA that is demonstrating “overt anti-Semitism.”
Pres once again only reacts with his vitriol limited to those who offend his sense of moral and ethical superiority. Very common among the class who see themselves as the theological betters of those around them. He is a defender and apologist of a group marked primarily for its own organizational incompetency and financial mismanagement.
Just one question. Did you take my advice at the early bird special and have the beef brisket? Good Jewish comfort food. I tend to like it with a good palestinian falafel. I am all about love and peace.
You have a curious definition of vitriol:
Anyone who criticizes your posts with factual information is providing “vitriol.”
All of the name calling and innuendo that you routinely post is “not vitriol.”
Curious why you do not apparently consider the consolidated UPCUSA & PCUSA membership numbers in 1965 to be a valid reference point in discussing long term trends.
It is interesting to note events of the past week in Alabama. A Presbytery in conservative Alabama votes by 2-1 to approve same sex marriages in the church—-14F.
At the same time the Supreme Court in Alabama chooses to disobey the rulings of a Federal Judge regarding same sex marriage.
I am amused at the juxtaposition,
What lies and hypocrisy they espouse – they know how to play the worldly game by saying “We welcome all people.” Of course Christians welcome all people. But do we welcome the sin along with the sinner? Do we welcome Chester the Molester and let him have sex with children in the nursery? Do we welcome Diane the dope addict and let her snort Cocaine in Church? Do we welcome Moslem terrorists and let them bring their bombs to be blessed in church? They proclaim “We are enlightened and open.” Don’t forget the old saying “You can be open like a door or open like a sewer”.
The low informational dummy crowd thinks using the Ricky Warren model of being like the world in order to win the world will work is delusional. Your point is right on spot, as it were.
Strange, how conservative tolerance has allowed those with liberal leanings to take control of the denomination…who are then intolerant toward conservatives in the church. Sad, watching the PCUSA destroy itself from the inside out. My presbytery (a large one) has lost 1/3 of its members in ten years.
…also curious as to why Layman’s support of FOP and PFR would make 1001 less newsworthy.
…also curious as to your interpretation of member’s departures in PR and the Buffalo church. It is just as common for conservative churches which have decided to stay in the PCUSA, delay leaving, or be indecisive to lose members as for liberal churches to loose members.
…also curious as to what motivates you to obscure the meaning of antisemitism. It’s a real problem. Please don’t deny it.
Well, I can tell you that there is nothing amusing, and your amusement at the people in the south makes you look rather small if I might say so. The difference in Alabama is that the good people of Alabama have had the sense to get out of the PCUSA. There are so few left in it now that practically every “progressive” in the state is all that is left in the PCUSA. And that is not many at all. Hence, the state of Alabama has many more people who believe in the authority of Scripture and a very very small number of people who believe that sodomy glorifies God.
Pres,
Using your logic concerning the impropriety of using combined figures for Presbyterians back in 1965 in relation to the PCUSA today, would you also say that it is wrong to compare the USA today to the same county prior to 1861, since at that point the South seceded from the Union, and there existed no United States of America until 1865?
Of course Alabama and much of the south have a long, long history of racism, segregation, bigotry and narrow-mindedness. I do remember a governor standing in the school house door. “Segregation now…..” And now the Chief Justice is saying that states rights trump the US Constitution. Of course he is wrong as any first year law student can tell you. And so you tell me that all the conservatives have left the PCUSA and only the progressives are left. Probably a good thing.
i.e. the ignorance of Northern. The “progressive” liberal democrats were the ones in favor of segregation.
I am amused at the ignorance of Northern.
Renaud Haut Lassana Koita Messages : 68 Enregistré le : 13 Fév 2007, 11:38 Citation Messagepar Lassana Koita ».
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