Prayers to Allah offered at PCUSA’s General Assembly plenary session (updated)

Why is the PCUSA praying to allah?

Kind of blows the Trinity right out of the water, does it not?

Sickening, when one considers what Muslims teach and believe about Jesus.

Prayers to Allah, make perfect since, when they just elected co-moderators one who like a fight, and the other who thinks evangelicals are no different than terrorist. I’ve been saying this GA is going to make the last one look like a Billy Graham crusade.

“makes perfect sense”, you can tell sometimes that I went to public schools

If you invite someone from the Protland Muslim community to come and pray he is going to pray to Allah. The question comes to mind: Why would they invite a Muslim when the murderer was acting out of Islamic jihad.
The people most affected ( Mexicans and LGBT and Americans as a whole) were not represented. Nothing makes any sense in the PCUSA
any more. They have lost their primary mission as seen yesterday when they voted to disregard the amendment to equip leaders for evangelism
and not bring it to a vote. Some may cheer, but I am weeping.

Did our church make the right choice in joining ECO? You better believe it!

My church made the right choice too; however, I feel sorry for those unable to leave the PCUSA. I am so thankful that I can watch what is happening in Portland with detached horror.

At least a few years ago, there was a clause in the GA standing rules that required members of other religious affiliations to be present at GA – observing, sitting in on meetings, offering prayers; and with their transportation/housing being funded by GA. Hence, you had the Hindu at the ’12 GA stand up at the plenary and say, “If the last 2,000 years have shown us anything, it is that there are many ways to God.” (or something close to that). This kind of thing is not new for the PCUSA, but it is getting more positive response and greater traction than ever before. If there is still anyone left in the PCUSA that is clinging to hopes of reforming it from within, I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I’d love to sell you.

It is a mockery that an ostensibly Christian denomination should include in its worship service a prayer to an idol.
 
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.  You shall have no other gods before me.” (Ex. 20.2-3)
 
The Hebrew word here translated as “before” is lyphene, which literally means “in face of”.  In this context, the Lord is commanding us not to bring other gods into His presence, as the organizers of the PC(USA) General Assembly did when they invited an adherent of a non-Christian religion to offer up a prayer to his idol in lieu of an opening prayer asking the one true God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ for His blessing.  Was it because there is no God in the Presbyterian Church (USA) that they had to ask Allah for his blessing (II Kg. 1.3,6)?
 
“Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, you survivors of the nations!  They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.  Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together!  Who told this long ago?  Who declared it of old?  Was it not I, the LORD?  And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.” (Is. 45.20-21)
 
And again, “When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take care…that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I might do the same.’  You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way.” (Dt. 12.29-31)  Indeed, “You shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.” (Ex. 34.14)
 
How long, O Lord, will this people continue to offer offense to Your Holy Name?  Will You not grant them repentance, that they might turn from their sin and thus be spared from the wrath prepared for those who hate You?

Ugh! Such ungodly worship of our magnificent and glorious God!

You can’t make this stuff up…

The answer to Anne’s question is obvious– Because the PCUSA is lost.

David, my entire family left the PCUSA several years ago without the benefit of a nearby ECO or EPC waiting in the wings. Since that time, we have enjoyed visiting other churches, and I have developed great respect for some of them, including the Church of Christ, where church management is vested in the local congregation. I live in a large metro community, so the establishment of an ECO or EPC is just a matter of time, and I will eventually join one or the other. In the meantime, I patiently wait satisfied that, when the chips are down, I still have my Bible.

Jim, this is the central point, I think. It is astonishing how many Christians think of God as a monolith, not the God in three persons that we worship. The truth is, Allah is not God, but this distinction is often drowned out by noise.

Really? That prayer demonstrates syncretism and flawed syntax in full flower. For Mr. Said’s sake, I’m glad he lives under the blanket of religious liberty here in the United States provided by patriots’ blood and God’s blessings. If he offered that prayer publically in one of the Gulf States, Iran or Pakistan, or ISIS territory, he might not live to see another day. Does anyone know about his relationship with CAIR?

Thank you so much for your “on target” analysis of what happened at the PCUSA General Assembly. I don’t know why I was shocked when I read it, but when I did I became so angry. You are so right. They prayed to a FALSE GOD. The only “allah” that has supposedly existed was one of over 300 Babylonian gods which were worshipped – ALL FALSE. Islam is a satanic religion, spawned by the “angel of light” (Satan)when he visited Muhammad right before the so-called prophet was ready to commit suicide. What has happened to my childhood denomination? The one I served in for years as an organist, teacher, pastor, now ex-pastor (because of the PCUSA apostasy)? God have mercy. Most persons in the pew don’t even have a clue about the path onto which the Louisville false prophets are leading them.

No moderation necessary. Everything I wrote is true.

Just to be clear, Allah is the Arabic word for God. When Arabic Christians pray to God, they also use the word, “Allah.”

Sad commentary on the state of the Presbyterian Church.

UPDATE: At the conclusion of the afternoon plenary on Wednesday, June 22, the Stated Clerk of the General Assembly, Rev. Gradye Parsons, offered an apology. He said that he had become aware that some had found the prayer on Saturday offensive. Parsons said that sometimes mistakes can be made in ecumenical relationships and stated it was not intentional. “It was never the intention to offend anyone, and we offer an apology to those who were offended.”

Don’t take offense, its only moderated to keep spammers or trolls from posting over and over again.

Maybe so .. but the “Allah” the Muslim prays to, is not the same “Allah” a Christian Arab prays to.

In discussions this week, one member of the clergy commented that “Gradye Parsons just doesn’t get it.” I have been having that discussion for quite sometime. It looks as though we were proven right this week, not that there was not enough proof already. Coming on the heels of the Orlando Massacre, it’s as if he and those in leadership are rubbing our collective noses in it.

They have taken great pride in forcing this denomination’s extreme turn to the left. In taking their stands, they have selfishly used the denomination to promote their personal views. They have shown, too, that they are absolutely illequipped to take the positions they take on behalf of the denomination.

The PC(USA) leaders clearly do not have the educational background nor well reasoned thought process to take the positions they do on our behalf. While their sound bytes grab attention, they are wholly naive in when it comes to politics, when it comes to simple economics, when it comes to foreign affairs. Their approaches are purely emotional.

At the same time, we have all witnessed the steep decline of PC(USA). It’s obvious now that the departures either by individual members or whole congregations will continue but likely at an increasing rate. I have to agree, the stated clerk just does not get it.

What can be said that hasn’t already been said…about what can plainly be seen and heard? Scripture has made it abundantly clear.

[mouth hanging open in utter disbelief]

Is an expression of apology by the Stated Clerk to the offended Christians enough? I do not know how many of those who were present at the opening plenary session of the 222nd General Assembly representing the whole body of the Presbyterian Church (USA) were offended. But the real question should be: What if our triune God was present there and offended, who is going to repent before Him for the PCUSA? Of many gods in the ancient religious sacred books, the God of the Bible alone forbids such syncretistic practices—OT calls them “adultery.”

I think that the Presbyterian Church (USA) and its Stated Clerk ought to be very much more concerned about offending a holy and righteous God than offending the likes of you or me.

Political Correctness is at the root of this entire affair. Our Church leaders care more about what society thinks than what God has instructed.

Twenty-five years ago they held a “Re-Imaging” conference for women that included the worship of the goddess Sophia. At another conference, a PCUSA minister asked the question, “What’s the big deal about Jesus?” And there at least two PCUSA pastors who are openly atheist. Yesterday’s travesty should come as no surprise.

Yes, a sad commentary, but not on the Presbyterian Church, only on the PCUSA. Is there any misunderstanding why the PCUSA is continuing to lose membership and congregations to other Presbyterian and Reformed denominations? The PCUSA is completely lost.

And I am sure the Arab believers prays to this “Allah” in the name of Issa (Jesus), declaring that Issa to be the Son of the Most High, which a Muslim will find extremely offensive, even “blasphemeous” that Allah would have a Son.

In the United States, “allah” is the name of the god of the Koran, not the God of the Bible. Yet, even if we ignore that truth, to honor the false prophet Mohammad, would still show a shocking and heretical belief, and frankly shear stupidity of these leaders. To pray to “allah” and honor “Mohammad” is clearly anti-christian. May God have mercy on
these heretics.

Since when is inviting a person who practices another faith to participate in Christian worship considered “ecumenical?” I always thought it was “interfaith.” Is this the new PCUSA normal? The boiling down of all faiths into one, equal, happy party?

..So, the more Muslims attack USA, the more USA tries to accept Islam.
Not a good message to a religion based on surrender and domination..

How many more members will the PC(USA) loose because of this?

Amen!

I’m glad, at least, to see that someone was offended.

No. I Do. Not. Believe. This.
This is low, even for the PCUSA.
No wonder the PCUSA is hemorrhaging churches, members and money.
Would the last person leaving please turn out the lights and attach the sign “Ichabod” over the door?
Wait. God has already done both.

Indeed.

Parsons “It was never the intention to offend anyone, and we offer an apology to those who were offended.”

How about apologizing to God!

People are surprised by this event? PC USA left the tracks several decades ago.

So sad. PCUSA leadership continues to destroy this denomination and pulls away from the biblical truth.

So, when an Arabic-speaking Christian prays to “Allah,” that person is praying to an idol? When a Spanish-speaking person prays to “Dios,” that person is praying to an idol? “Allah” is simply the Arabic word meaning “God;” is the consensus of those making comments here that only the English word “God” is appropriate, and that anyone who uses any other word (such as the Hebrew word El or the Greek word Theos) is praying to an idol? And when an apology is offered, it should not be accepted, because slips of the tongue should always be punished?

Thanks for that clarification, John. I was aware of that, so I read the whole article and the text of the prayer. Unfortunately, Muhammad was not a prophet of God, precisely because he rejected Jesus as the Christ and the chosen sacrificial atonement for all humans. Including Muhammad as a prophet of God either 1) shows the prayer leader as completely ignorant of the Gospel of Christ, or 2) openly rejects the Gospel of Christ for some other unity outside of Christ’s person and work of atonement. Either way, the apology offered is woefully insufficient.

Islam denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. There is no way that both faiths can worship together as long as this is the ‘truth’ of Islam. Had the prayer been simply to Allah, perhaps it would not have been so offensive, but to refer to God the Son as ‘a prophet’ is blasphemy. PC is supposed to stand for Presbyterian Church, not politically correct.

Robert, the issue is not as simplistic as you seem to believe. While in the Arabic language “Allah” is the generic word which we would translate as “God”, in Islam “Allah” is seen as the proprietary name of the one they worship, and as such is defined by their “revealed” tenets. A hypothetical parallel would be if “Trinity,” shorn of any theological meaning, were the generic word in English for “God,” yet for orthodox Christians retains its deep, theological sense of one God in substance consisting of three persons. Would you assume that a non-Christian speaking of “Trinity” in such a scenario is thinking of the same being as Christians speaking of “Trinity”? Perhaps you’d say yes. But at the very least you ought to concede the likelihood that others would rightly doubt that the use of the same sounds conveyed by the letters spelling “Trinity” does not convey the same meaning or sense to all parties involved.

I don’t know Arabic…but when an Arabic Christian (assuming (s)he is a Nicean Christian) prays to “Allah” (s)he is praying to the Triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When a Muslim prays to Allah, (s)he is praying to something other than the Triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, since Islam denies the Trinity.

Thank you for stating so clearly my feelings. Political Correct Under Stupid Assumptions

There is a Muslim faith for those who wish to pray to Allah. The committee should be ousted, and a new committee of Christ-centered Presbyterians should be elected. One that speaks Presbyterian. Not one that is so concerned with political correctness and shock value that they forget who they/we are. Just for the record, we may lose our church and our home over this latest ridiculousness. Can’t you think of any other way to get your names in the news? I’m sure you could think of something that would not hurt the very people you are supposed to represent.

The so-called Presbyterian committee does not speak for me, but I will pray for them. And when I do, it will involve Jesus Christ. Oh, and one more thing. I don’t care if this is politically correct or not.

In apologizing, Parson patronizes those he holds in contempt. “If you are offended, I apologize”, not “Something happened this morning that was heretical, so I apologize”. With a wink and a not to the “enlightened”, he attempts to sweep this idolatrous action under the rug. We are in free fall

The GA study this year should be: Stephen Coughlin’s “Catastrophic Failure: Blindfolded America in the Face of Jihad.” The GA would not find the reading to their liking but truth always hurts and bites.

I think its accurate to say that the term “Allah” has changed, as has many other words. In the English language, for instance, the word “gay” would have meant something entirely different to my great grandfather as it does today to my son. The term “Allah” has been used a the Arabic term for God, which was what it meant prior to the arrival of Islam’s founder, Muhammad. And that, of course, is why Christian Arabs have used the term for God. But the term “Allah” now refers to a being so different in character from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that many are saying it really describes more accurately the ancient word “Lillah”, which is an ancient Egyptian deity, often associated with Lucifer.

The real problem with his prayer is that he described Jesus as a prophet.

At least one.

Who or what could be more evil than driving Christians away from their church? The moderators refused to let me post my assessment. They are even hiding the comments of perhaps, dozens, or maybe hundreds of believers that have expressed their concerns. Evil always hides from the light.

Our church leaders are very interested in using the denomination platform to promote their own personal agendas. It is a selfish attempt to promote its own progressive agenda which may not fit comfortably with the philosophies of the rank and file membership. The astonishing thing is that they have continued to promote their own positions even as the denomination falls around them.

It is difficult to find where such extreme involvement in politicians is even within the stated clerk job description. It certainly was included in the job description posted on the PC(USA) site. And though there may be historical evidence of others taking political positions, that does not necessarily translate into what was requested by the membership. I think, too, that the positions did not lead to the mass exodus.

Are they just oblivious?

The PCUSA isn’t praying to Allah. A Muslim guest at GA was. It was an interfaith guest presenting an expression of worship, not a candidate for ordination presenting a statement of faith.

As a life long Presbyterian I continue to be concerned about how far off the path we have wandered. It goes way beyond this latest issue. Look at how our beuacracy has grown while mission bugets shrink. I served on a Synod’s mission committee during the sophia issue. While telling us we had to cut missions we were meeting in a plush hotel with catered meals…no sense of sacrifice.

We are in an era of wheat and chaff and the chaff is leading us.

Jesus told us to make our petitions in His name. Can a Muslim do that?

some had found the prayer on Saturday offensive. Parsons said that sometimes mistakes can be made in ecumenical relationships and stated it was not intentional. “It was never the intention to offend anyone, and we offer an apology to those who were offended.”

Here is who is offended: The Holy Triune God. Clearly the PCUSA is apostate.

I know Wajdi. He is a friend. And he definitely does NOT believe Jesus is divine. Which is typical of someone who believes Muslim doctrine. The apology from Gradye is a joke, and offensive in and of itself. They knew exactly what would happen, and they anticipated backlash. Once again, the liberals play dumb.

come home………www.epc.org

come home………www.epc.org

And he also listed Jesus as just a prophet of God…

I assume you are referring to the moderators at PCUSA.org. They have been refusing my comments for weeks now.

Thank you, Mateen, for thst clarification.

Nice try, Alex. The PCUSA General Assembly invited and allowed a Muslim to lead them in prayer. That Muslim, as anyone would expect, then prayed to a false god. That is idolatry. So, the PCUSA committed idolatry.

I wonder if they understand the basic concept of “Supply and Demand.?” They jump on the bandwagon for open borders and, at the same time, hollar for increased minimum wage. If you continually import cheap labor, wages will stay low. Cut off supply and I’ll guarantee that wages will increase.

Again, with regard to immigration, I wonder if the leaders have set foot in our schools and paid attention recently? Are they aware of how dumbed down our education system has become as we have been forced to accommodate the influx of students. AND, it is illegal to ask if the child may be illegal.

And then there is welfare. It is clear that we cannot take care of the folks we have on the welfare rolls now. How will adding to that improve things. As it is now, we have far too many benefits being provided and it is breaking our country.

Finally, why not rail against a tax system that makes it more attractive for an individual to stay on welfare rather than get a cut in “wages” due to the tax impact on earnings? We even have seen some people quit work because they would get better financial aid for their college bound students.

At every turn, they seem to jump on a particular progressive subject. But, have they ever once offered a suggestion on how to deal with the issue? I think not. A friend calls it cowardly – I think I have to agree.

Islam preaches a false gospel, false.

One other critically important point to note is that the Koran in Surah 4, 157 – specifically, unambiguously, denies the death of Jesus. Either Jesus died on the cross – the essential need we have in His atonement for us, the lamb that was slain, or He didn’t.

Islam is not just another faith-it is 600 years after the fact, at the core, an anti-Christian deception. See Matthew 24:12.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and th Word was God. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the only way to God, the Father.
The PCUSA left the church. The unity God blesses is the unity when we are one with the Spirit as God the Father and God the Son are one. The true church cannot be one with the PCUSA.
God, wake them up, for they have ears but do not hear, they have eyes but do not see and their hearts are hardened to the Truth. God is love and God calls us to love one another even our enemies but God calls us to be transformed in that love. Jesus said we are to follow him, no other gods.

Arrgh! False god, false prophet, violation of the Constitution by having co-moderators, and before that, false marriages. Who will save us from this body of death?

Let’s have a GA every six months so we can hasten our suicide.

Translations in parentheses: (I’m not sorry for what we have done, but) I’m sorry that some were offended (though you were wrong to be).

The mere fact that a Muslim is praying at an allegedly Christian assembly is a severe problem. We are supposed to be praying for the salvation of Muslims, not inviting them to lead us.

The apology from Gradye Parsons was weaselly at best. He apologized “if some were offended?”

How about apologizing for inviting a non-Christian to pray to a false God (you don’t have to read far in the Quran to see that Allah absolutely does not have a Son) on the floor of General Assembly?

Just reminder, there are multiple Presbyterian denominations, and none of the others would have a Muslim praying at their General Assembly. None of the other denominations are bleeing members either.

Here are links to 3 other Presbyterian denominations:

Orthodox Presbyterian Church
http://www.opc.org

Presbyterian Church in America
http://www.pcanet.org

Evangelical Presbyterian Church
http://www.epc.org

Yes, but the ministers and elders undoubtedly bowed their heads and said “amen” to this prayer.

And thus they endorse a prayer to a false God who, accoring to the Quran, does not have a Son.

You should also check out http://www.pcanet.org and http://www.opc.org for other Presbyterian options.

The PCA and OPC represent the Christians who gave up on the PCUSA and its predecessors in 1972 and 1936, respectively. (The rot has been going on for a long time.)

Just curious. Has a Christian ever been invited to pray at a mosque.

Here in Central Fl., after the terrorist attack in Orlando, Christian Churches offered support to the victims.

I didn’t see any mosques doing the same. Just wondering…

This is BLASPHEMY. Plain and simple. … The god of the muslims is NOTHING like our Loving Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus who was GOD IN THE FLESH.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was GOD, He was with God in the beginning Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1:1-3

“The Word Became FLESH” John 1:14

“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

The PCUSA General Assembly invited and allowed a Muslim to Pray to His God Allah….How could this be Allowed?? Have those members Not educated themselves about Quran? This is VERY disturbing!! I can’t Help but believe this is Another example of Satan working Overtime.

I’ve supported the PCUSA on many moves towards the left, seeing grace and compassion towards others as important expressions of God’s love. I’ve rejected the use of three or four verses to interpret the messages of Jesus towards the harm of others. I was concerned over the Sophia debauchel several years ago, but agreed that God does in fact rise above our interpretations of male and female, and saw that as an ill-conceived attempt to open our minds towards the magnificence of God.
I kept hoping the warnings of my conservative friends were wrong.
Jesus said “You will love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul , and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” (Matt 22:37-38) (Exodus20:4-6) “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me”
You cannot bring in someone at a Christian meeting to pray to somebody else’s god. This crosses a line so far out of the realm of anything Christian I am baffled. So, PCUSA has decided that it no longer cares to be a Christian organization? the what is it?

John says:
So sad. PCUSA leadership continues to destroy this denomination and pulls away from the biblical truth.
——–
Please don’t call it leadership!

What has happened to the PCUSA?! I grew up in it, my grandfather was a pastor, my great-grandparents were missionaries and I’m pretty certain they’d all be horrified to see this if they were alive today. So very sad. PCUSA has truly lost its way! Heartbreaking!

““You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:7-10‬ ‭NIV‬‬

At least there was an apology for those offended. I can’t help but wonder what Jesus was thinking as he listened in on the prayer that diluted his deity in the name of political correctness and ecumenical relations.

Amen

Meanwhile, in my denomination (Lutheran ELCA), we elected a Presiding Bishop three years ago who says she wants us to return to the Lutheran Confessions and away from being a social services agency in religious drag.

Amen! And we wonder why our beloved denomination is dying on the vine. I’m proud to be a Presbyterian but I’m ashamed of our fear of the real truth. Jesus Christ is certainly much, much more than a deceased prophet. He is our LIVING God!

Here is who is offended: The Holy Triune God. Clearly the PCUSA is apostate.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!

I want to be a Presbyterian, I truly do and I dearly love my local Church that is, unfortunately, unable to leave PCUSA. I teach youth and adults God’s Word at that Church and all but weep at the thought of leaving but actions like this (don’t fool yourself, our leadership either knew what would happen or are obviously too incompetent for words) force me to ask myself how much longer I can take this drivel.

I repeat (but corrects spelling Merriam this go ’round)….According to Merriam Webster, an apology is a statement saying that you are sorry about something : an expression of regret for having done or said something wrong. Unless Mr. Parsons is completely ignorant, he knew exactly what he was doing and was probably prepared for some pushback. I dare say that the “apology” carried absolutely no regret. One need not continue wondering why the denomination is in such trouble.
Reply

But, the sad thing is that many of the remaining churches will likely be held hostage by the “graceful dismissal” process which increasingly appears to be extortion. Many of the churches will not be able to afford the cost of moving on. I think they (we!) should all refuse to pay the per capita to Louisville or even the support into the presbyteries if they continue in this mode.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how good Christian folks in the various presbyteries can in good conscience demand such fees. Many of the individual churches were built and supported exclusively by local folks and yet the presbyteries appear to be out for blood. Greed might be the issue with a twinge of embarrassment thrown in.

We have absolutely no idea as to what happens to all of that money. But, the concept of graceful dismissal simply isn’t.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I guess it’s possible to deceive the “elect” with far less than signs and wonders.

This breaks my heart, and I am not currently attending a PCUSA church. Thanks to this, I never will again.

I cannot face Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior, on judgement day and explain why I sat idly by while he was relegated to the status of a mere prophet, and never spoke up. Shame on everyone who sat there this day and remained silent.

I started in the PCUSA, became a Christian at 19 and then went to the PCA and served as a pastor for 24 yrs., and I have been in the OPC for 13 yrs. I am encouraged and thankful to see your responses to that action. I will be remembering the “faithful” who remain in that denomination in prayer. Sometimes it takes a shocking action like the Muslim prayer to wake us up and see how far the “boat” has drifted off course. When the authority of the Scriptures is compromised or discarded, the Church will lose sight of the person and work of Jesus Christ. What hope is there for the nation if the Church has lost its way? Please join me in praying for revival in all of our denominations, of those that “profess” to be Christian, and a returning to the Word of God as the only rule of our faith and practice.

Wow, it makes me sad to read this story. I know some WONDERFUL people who are still in the PCUSA. We have often spoken about how the denomination is slowly (and sometimes not so slowly!) but surely drifting away from biblical Christianity.

These friends of mine are *heart-broken* about it, yet they have remained in the denomination and continuously pray for God to turn it around. There are still many faithful Christians in the PCUSA, so let’s pray for them. God is not so much interested in our denominational affiliation as much as he is in our faithfulness to him wherever we find ourselves.

But in the PCUSA there are also many people who have long ago strayed from biblical Christianity, and it seems like they are the ones holding the reins, for the most part.

I hold nothing against Muslims personally (one of my friends is a devout Muslim, actually), but to have a MUSLIM prayer during a CHRISTIAN denominational church gathering…that is reprehensible. If it were a public community gathering to talk about how we can work to live together in this society with peace and harmony as Muslims and Christians (which probably needs to happen, actually) then I’d have no problem with it.

But if we are gathering as Christians to administer the work of our church denomination, then that’s another issue entirely. I hope this serves as a shocking wake up call to many in the PCUSA who don’t see the problems as they truly are.

This is not a surprise to me. This organization has denied the Lordship of Jesus Christ on many occasions.They are just doing what they believe is correct; but actually far from the the basic core teachings of Christianity. With this actions they openly in public offend Christ and apologies do not cover this actions. Only repentance and and humbleness are fit for this kind of aberrations and not apologies to the people “offended” as that person said.
To defend the Christian truth, loving but at the same time strong condemning action is required against these enemies of our Christian faith.

Robert have you read the koran and the bible?if you believe The bible comes from god how could the koran also come from god? They contradict each other.why would god do that?

It should be noted that many, many churches have left and are in the process of leaving the PCUSA at this time because of things just like this.(many have lost their paid-for church buildings in the process). The PCUSA as someone said, is LOST. It is a pitiful and very frightening thing that many educated people involved are still with the PCUSA , sat through that at the meeting and might not even see the alarm in it. ECO is growing by leaps and bounds.

Ours too! And many others from our city , involved in a larger PCUSA church are coming in weekly. This latest action at the meeting is unbelievable!

I am appalled by the actions of the PC(USA), and Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons only compounds the disaster. The leadership has become a political action committee, rather than offering spiritual guidance as disciples of Jesus Christ. Isn’t it time for Christians to leave the PC(USA)?

The Muslim’s ask us to be tolerant. But, they can insult Christians by saying their deity is false and we need to be okay with that type of behavior. If someone had did the same about Muhammad we would have seen outburst of violence and possible assaults on bystanders. In the very nature of the beginning of the opening introduction was showing us their attitude and disrespect to those who worship Jehovah, our God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and father of Jesus Christ our savior. He could have dismissed the part on saying Jesus is a prophet all together and still get his prayer out. You have to see that this was his intention and that is how he wanted it to be portrayed. He is showing his dominance by saying their is no other religion but the one of Allah. America, we have been slowly dismantled and Christians are losing the battle because you are being silent. It is not going to stop but get worse if we do not voice our concern and stand up to this bigot and hateful distaste of Christianity. We are seeing it throughout this country with ACLU and many others. Our government buildings, schools, monuments are all wipe from presenting our faith and the fundamental sovereignty that made this country for what it is. Those who follow Christ are peaceful and loving people and we pray diligently. But, we need to have a more announced voice towards those who want to silence us and disrespect our beliefs before our freedom to do so is relinquished.

Something that has deeply concerned me in all that has been happening is the amount of money leaving our churches to pay the PCUSA and lawyers. Money that belongs to God’ s work for advancing the gospel and the kingdom of our God.
judgment is coming and begins with the church. Lord, have mercy!

Finally, as expected, the PCUSA provides the clearest symbol of its renunciation of God’s jurisdiction over it; proving it is irretrievably apostate under current management.

Since yesterday’s posting, I’ve been asked if http://www.koppdisclosure.com can be printed/forwarded without my permission.

Sure.

When all is said and done, the PCUSA, in General Assembly, assented to someone offering a “prayer” in which Jesus is equated with Mohammed, and merely a prophet. I’m not zeroing in on the Allah part, but relegating Jesus Christ, Son of God, Second Person of the Holy Trinity, to the status of a prophet. The PCUSA assented to this, and in allowing this to happen without a word, have denied Christ. They are no longer Christian.

I was a commissioner and this is being so blown out of proportion that it simply shows the gross mistrust and the way some are attacking the very Bride of Christ. The 8 days were filled with prayer and praise to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. The theme of reconciliation permeated the sessions, words of the Belhar confession being actualized in the ways folks treated one another. “They will know we are Christians by our Love…” can we not find that love that allows us to be brothers and sisters in Christ? Please stop pushing people away from Christ’s Church by such nasty rhetoric. I was there and left feeling so very positive about the Spirit’s leading of the PC(USA)

Strong words but accurate. Thank you.

And, after all, feeling good is the really important thing.

why the sarcastic response? Jesus died and rose that we might be reconciled to him and to one another. The spirit, the Holy Spirit at the meeting blew the breath of new life, and I’m praying for that for my brothers and sisters, including you.

“…can we not find that love that allows us to be brothers and sisters in Christ…”
——–
I’m confused. You and can be, but not with a Muslim (by definition).

Correction: you and I can be…

Cindy:
Reconciliation apart from truth is meaningless. When GA endorses the proclamation of Jesus as prophet equal to Mohammad (which, in essence, they did by their silence) they chose unity over truth. As Jesus told the woman at the well, those who wish to worship God must do so in Spirit and in truth, not in Spirit and unity.

PT Barnum once said” You can fool some of the people all of the time and all the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time.” I think Cindy may be found in Group B.
Political Correctness makes everyone feel good about themselves regardless of the truth.

Regarding your friends still in the PCUSA holding out hope for a turnaround, I’m sure they’re sincere and hoping for the best. However, we have a saying in the military: You don’t keep fighting battles after the war is lost. PCUSA is a post-Christian organization. Denominations come and go. The time for faithful Christians to leave PCUSA has come. I wish them well.

And we have never, ever found out what happens to that money. It is a shame, perhaps even criminal, that local congregations paid for the local building and expansion themselves, are being force to pay extortion-like sums all as part of the Graceful Dismissal process. Why is this allowed to continue? But, again, what happens with all of this money?

Indeed, it tries to become a political action committee. It would be interesting to know if they also contribute to the various other PACs and such to promote causes. I still contend that the relative handful of folks in Louisville and on the committees are using the denomination’s “influence,” what ever is left, to promote personal views. They do not seem to have a good idea of what the membership as a whole thinks. One has to wonder if they have ever seen a correlation between extreme political posturing and the decline in membership. I just may have an answer!

Pope Francis has declared publicly that Islam’s Allah is the same as the Christian God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, the same God!

Americans have little understanding of how barbarically oppressive Islam is because they’ve never lived as a Christian or other religious minority in a Muslim nation like I have. My family is Coptic Christian and we had to flee our native Egypt because of all the beatings and church burnings we endured.

Islam is a barbaric religion because Muhammad was a violent warlord who slaughtered “infidels” by the thousands and converted many to Islam BY THE SWORD. Muhammad’s most devout followers follow his barbaric, bloody example.

There are many peaceful and decent Muslims, but they are peaceful and decent IN SPITE OF ISLAM, not because of it. Moderate Muslims do not speak out often against Islamic terrorists because the “radical extremists” know the Quran much better than they do.

The Quran is a WAR MANUAL with more text about hating and KILLING Jews than Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Mein_Kampf
“The amount of anti-Jewish text in Mein Kampf adds up to 7% in total, whilst the largely non-abrograted Medinan verses of the Qur’an contain more than double that amount, standing at almost 17%.”

Thanks for making sense.

Let’s just see what God has to say about it. 2 Corinthians 6:14
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (KJVStrongs)

You cannot preach false religion alongside the gospel of Christ. Have you lost the message of the gospel? It’s what Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude, and most importantly Jesus told us about the Kingdom of God. Paul spoke out about syncretism specifically in Colossians and yet, the Presbyterian Church is honoring a false religion that was given to a self-proclaimed prophet far after the special revelation of Christ was finalized with the vision given to John. There is no more, it is a closed canon, and to honor any other message is at best depravity, and at worst blasphemy. If the Presbyterian Church doesn’t change it’s ways and stay true to the gospel message, it’s going to have to face the very possibility of being separated into the goats and face eternal destruction in the end. The only true word of God (not Allah) is the one revealed by His prophets to Israel, his chosen people, through Jesus, His only unique son, and through the apostles and writers of the New Testament empowered by the Spirit. The God of Islam IS NOT the God of Christianity.

Well said. It’s not unwise for them to continue to pray for a reformation in the Presbyterian Church, but they must ask themselves if they can only pray that prayer while remaining a part of a warped organization. There are still churches in America who have clung to Christian truth and they can become a part of those. To continue to affiliate with a false gospel is dangerous. God knows the hearts of these people, but the way to really affect change is to leave the PCUSA and weaken it to the point of insignificance. They still hold sway over a large number of people and their false teaching is going to pull many away from the truth. Staying on board this sinking ship only helps the organization to drown everyone in falsehood and away from Christ.

Well, consider the obverse: NOT feeling good about your religious convictions. No matter what your type of belief system, you’d better feel good about it . . or move on.

Why not have a Buddhist, or Atheist or a priest of Satan open the assembly espousing their ideas. All of your worldly wisdom justifications could apply equally to them as well.

Nowhere in scripture can I find God encouraging Christians to invite a false profit to present supplications to a false god for any reason. In fact, it is well know, even among the lost that the exact opposite is true.

Colossians 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2 John 9-11 – Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Ephesians 5:11 – And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Madam, you might have felt that “the Spirit (was) leading the PC(USA)”, but I assure you that He most certainly did not lead the General Assembly Committee to invite a non-Christian to offer a corporate prayer to his idol at an ostensibly Christian worship service.
 
Again, you might feel that this one prayer to an idol was a small thing in the midst of “8 days…filled with prayer and praise to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior”, but as the Lord said via the Apostle Paul, “Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?  Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened.  For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.” (I Cor. 5.6-7)  But of course, Mr. Wajdi, who offered the prayer, does not believe that Jesus Christ was sacrificed; he believes that Jesus Christ was nothing more than a prophet (whom Islam perverts into a puppet to point the way to its idol) who was taken bodily into heaven on His way to the Crucifixion, and that another man (such as Judas Iscariot or Simon of Cyrene) was transformed into His appearance and crucified in His place.  But the glory of Christ consists in the fact that He died on the Cross to atone for the sins of humankind, bearing in His body on the Cross the wrath of God poured out in judgment on behalf of all those for whom He died, and that He rose from the dead to secure new life for all those for whom He died.  And Islam would rob Him of that glory.  What, then, does this say of the faith commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ of those who bowed their heads, closed their eyes, and said “Amen” in participation with this blasphemous prayer?
 
And (now-retired) Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons sought to “heal the wound of (the Lord’s) people lightly” (Jer. 6.14, 8.11, calling this very serious lapse in judgment “an offense of the head, not of the heart; it came from one seeking to be authentically gracious, as part of the healing service”.  Did it not occur to the General Assembly Council that the Lord God Himself might be deeply offended by a non-Christian being allowed to offer a prayer to his idol in the context of an ostensibly Christian worship service, as if He would accept this prayer as if offered to Him under the name of this idol, which prayer specifically asked that this idol would convert the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) to the religion given over to the worship of this same idol?  The Lord does not want us to bring any idol into His worship service—this is His First Commandment (Ex. 20.2-3, 34.14, Dt. 12.29-31, II Kg. 1.3,6, Is. 45.20-21)!  If this was merely “an offense of the head, not of the heart”, then those responsible for inviting this non-Christian to offer a prayer to his idol at the General Assembly opening worship service ought to be fired for gross incompetence!  But given that “the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost,” (Lk. 19.10), and given that “a majority of commissioners…rejected calls for a commitment to evangelism”, coupled with many other decisions by this and previous Assemblies that have brought the PC(USA)’s thinking and rhetoric more in-line with the thinking and rhetoric of this unbelieving world lost in sin, I must conclude that, from all appearances, “This people honors (the Lord Jesus) with their lips, but their hearts are far from (Him); in vain do they worship (Him), teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mt. 15.8-9)
 
And as far as “the theme of reconciliation permeating the sessions”, you did speak truly that “Jesus died and rose that we might be reconciled to him and to one another” (cf. Rom. 5.10-11, II Cor. 5.18-21, Eph. 2.11-16, Col. 1.15-23).  But I do not see this happening in the Presbyterian Church (USA), and I have been watching it very carefully for the last quarter century.  To the contrary, I see it reconciling itself to the world on the world’s terms, in spite of the Lord’s explicit commands that we ought not do that (Rom. 12.2, I Cor. 1.21, Jas. 4.4, I Jn. 2.15-17), thus alienating itself from God by not continuing in the faith, unstable and fickle as it is, thus shifting from the hope of the Gospel, which is found only through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone for salvation from the penalty, power, and presence of sin, and thus alienating Evangelical Presbyterians, such as myself, who cling to that hope despite all that the unbelieving world does to undermine it.
 
If the Presbyterian Church (USA) is truly serious about reconciliation, as this last Assembly asserted, then it needs to get its dying house in order first and be reconciled to God by repenting of its sins of accommodating itself to the world and by seeking His forgiveness for having committed them.  And by these sins, I do not mean apologizing for deeds that neither the PC(USA) nor its predecessors have done, nor do I mean expressing regret for having upheld clear and unambiguous Biblical teaching regarding human sexuality.  Rather, I mean repenting of:
 
* Having treated the Scriptures as “nevertheless the words of men” (C-67 §9.29) and thus subject to the authority of the authority of Literary and Historical Criticism that denies the plain meaning of the text (such as the Bible’s self-attestation as to its human authorship), which thus undermines the Church’s confidence in the veracity and reliability of the Scriptures, and instead regarding them as did Calvin, who wrote, “This is the first clause, that we owe to the Scripture the same reverence which we owe to God; because it has proceeded from him alone, and has nothing belonging to man mixed with it.” (Commentary on II Tim. 3.16)
 
* Having neglected Evangelism and Mission for the purpose of seeking and saving the lost by teaching them that salvation from the penalty, power, and presence of sin comes only by grace through faith in the Person and Work of Christ alone (Rom. 10.9-17, Heb. 2.1-4).
 
* Having tolerated teachers who deny the Substitutionary Atonement, the central work of Christ on the Cross (Is. 52.13-53.12, Mt. 26.28, Rom. 5.8-9, Heb. 9.28, I Pet. 2.24, 3.18), and the Bodily Resurrection of Christ from the dead, the ground of our hope in Him (I Cor. 15), which doctrines are at the heart of the Gospel.
 
* Having tolerated the belief that individuals can be made right with God apart from explicit faith in Jesus Christ, in arrogant contradiction of Scripture (Jn. 14.6, Acts 4.10-12), thus undermining the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
* Having accommodated the world’s beliefs regarding such things as Evolution (Gen. 1-2), Abortion (Gen. 1.26-27, 5.1, 9.6, Ex. 20.13, 21.22-23, Ps. 51.5, 139.13-16, Is. 49.5, Jer. 1.5, Lk. 1.44), and human sexuality (Lev. 18, Rom. 1.24-27, I Cor. 6.9-11, I Tim. 1.9-10).
 
If the Presbyterian Church (USA) does not first get its own house in order and be reconciled to God by confessing and repenting of, and seeking His forgiveness for having committed, these sins, then I assure you that there will be no reconciliation.

Despite formal Roman Catholic doctrine to the contrary, Popes and Councils can and do err.
 
“The Supreme Judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.” (Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter&nbspI §10)
 
The Scriptures reveal that God exists eternally as three distinct yet inseparable Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3.16-17, 28.19, II Cor. 13.14, Eph. 2.18).  Allah, on the other hand, does not.  Therefore, they are not the same God, Pope Francis’ purported declaration to the contrary notwithstanding.

Thank you, Loren.

The Presbyterian Church (USA) has institutionalized a
culture of unbelief over a period of many decades,
commencing in the 1920s, when its General Assembly
ceased specifying “fundamentals of the faith” to
which all ordained leaders were required to subscrib
e. The resulting adaptation to cultural mores has been
gradual, and, for many persons in the pews, it has been virtually imperceptible. Evidence that it is occurring has periodically erupted in crises, each of
which has numbed the membership’s theological and
ethical discernment and set the stage for further erosion of what were once its distinctive beliefs and practices. ——- I suggest you read your own study and published by your Church.

God bless you Addul.

Bobby, I was thinking of the very same thing last night. I pray for the saints that yet remain in the PCUSA. I have read of many saying “leave”, and remember Dr. Richard Lovelace urging us not to, in the early 70’s. There are bodies, denominations that people can leave to, but, it is something like doing a ‘system restore’ on your PC. You have to go back at least 100 yrs. in Presbyterian circles, before the Auburn Affirmation, confession-wise, to have a relatively “clean” restore. As in the computer, it means that some favorite programs and practices, that are unbiblical and unconfessional would have to be given up. To do a “restore” to a denomination 10 or 20 years old won’t be enough. It has to be restored to that place that the Scripture is held as inerrant & infallible and the only rule of faith and practice. Any point short of that will start a drift into the same errors and practices and even into heresy. I will observe that there is no perfect church this side of heaven, they all contain “wheat” as well as “tares”.
I conclude with this thought, it is generally accepted that there are 3 marks of a true church: the faithful preaching (& consequent practice) of the Word of God, the proper administration of the Sacraments and biblical church discipline. The saints in the PCUSA must look at their local congregations, discern whether they are a “true church”, and decide like Joshua, whom they will serve…the world, the flesh or the Lord Jesus Christ. Joshua 24:15

But how does one reconcile one’s strong affection for his local church with the actions of a denomination that he often finds repugnant? It’s a tough call – we have so many friends at our local church. But we are both terribly disturbed at the relentless drive to the left on all issues…..I am still of the opinion that the leadership pushed its own feelings onto the denomination. Regardless, the leadership continues to delve into politics and, in doing so, proves regularly that it is illequipped to speak on such issues.

The local church is a wee bit more liberal than I would like but do still have strong feelings for the church. What is the purpose of the denomination anyway? Why even put ourselves into this tormented position?

I don’t even see why they would have a Muslim do an opening prayer. I wouldn’t expect a Baptist or a Catholic either, but at least they pray to God!
Oh my!

I guess I don’t understand their reasoning. It’s a Presbyterian assembly, right? I would think there are enough Presbyterians in leadership to take part; why bring outsiders? I feel like the head honchos were trying to prove something-like they can do what they want and no one will stop them.
Good Luck with that reasoning when you meet God face to face.

Do your homework, Robert. Allah was/is an ancient and popular Arabic diety that Mohammad adopted due to its popularity.

What is needed is not saying they are sorry if they offended anyone, as if that had any meaning beyond platitudes. What is needed is repentance for an act of apostasy.

So glad we left PCUSA when we did 🙂

I treat the PCUSA as I treat our Senators and Congressmen as they treat the Constitution of the USA, in name only. To me, the local church, the Body of Christ is valid, not the PCUSA as far as I am concerned. As a member of a local PCUSA, I regard the same as a 1 church denomination following the Holy Bible and the Westminster Confession of Faith for starters, and I know we do not take orders from the apostates within the PCUSA, and we will do Biblically what Christ commands. Rather than leave, rebel in a positive way establishing daughter churches, and if this was/were done in the last 10 years, the minority of apostates within the PCUSA would have no say. To those churches that have left, are they fulfilling the Great Commission, Matt. 28:18-20? Or are they just being status quo as before, going nowhere fast??