The online conversation on the identity and the purpose of the Presbyterian Church (USA) has officially started.
Sponsored by the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly (COGA), the objective of the survey “is to engage the whole church in conversation, and to provide a summary of this conversation to commissioners at the 222nd General Assembly, where they will weigh important matters of purpose, function, mission and ministry. We have the opportunity to share our hopes and dreams about the church with the General Assembly.”
“Please share your insights, wisdom, hopes and dreams for the PCUSA,” said Margaret Elliott, moderator of the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly, in a news release. “Through careful listening and honest sharing we can create a church for this time and place.”
Carmen Fowler LaBerge, president of the Presbyterian Lay Committee, said it is critical that all who are concerned about the theological wanderings of the denomination take part in the survey.
The PCUSA, she said, needs a strong reminder of where to look and where not to look when it needs answers.
“I appreciate the open invitation for input, but the idea that we’re going to collectively ‘create a church for this time and place’ is worrisome. We don’t create the church in any time nor place. The Church is a reality called into being by and for God — Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If the church is looking for an identity she need only look to Jesus. If the church is looking for a purpose she need look no further than the Great Commission. The Presbyterian Church (USA) has access to the Bible and the Confessions, one wonders why the process initiated by the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly does not include a survey of that authoritative voice,” she said.
General Assembly Moderator Heath Rada, who recently issued a “Call to the Church” saying that the need to restore trust in PCUSA and reform the denomination is “urgent,” is also urging all Presbyterians to participate.
“Please trust the process one more time. Please participate. If you don’t, we may not hear some very important facts or opinions that need to be placed on the table. Many people feel that God is giving us a Kairos moment. But it is up to us to accept it and do something with it,” he said.
“In order to emerge as a healthy, vital denomination we need to hear from you concerning your own hopes, visions, and concerns about the PCUSA,” said Rada. “Each congregation, each organization, each presbytery, each advocacy group, each individual member is critical to providing the kind of input that can help us deal with the realities we are facing in ways that might enable us to restore trust, be transparent, and most of all be faithful to the Lord and Savior we all adore and whom we wish to serve.”
Questions on the survey include:
- “Is it important to you that any congregation to which you belong has a relationship with the Presbyterian Church (USA)?”
- “What are we better equipped to do as a national denomination that we could not do (or do as well) on our own as congregations, mid-councils, or networks?”
- “Imagine the Presbyterian Church (USA) in its ideal form, what does the denomination already have/do that fits your ideal? What does the denomination need to change in order to reach this ideal?”
- “What is the church called to be and do in the context of the 21st century American culture?”
The online survey is only one part of COGA’s attempts for a church-wide conversation.
COGA is also asking individuals, congregations, mid councils, seminaries, affiliated groups, and any other interested parties to conduct their own discussions about “the identity and purpose of the denomination.”
A downloadable discussion guide has been made available to help facilitate the process, and GA Vice-Moderator Larissa Kwong Abazia will host two Twitter chats – Oct. 26 from 6-7 p.m. and Nov. 12 from 9-10 a.m. @LarissaLKA using the hashtag #pcusaidentity.
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COGA announce church-wide conversation on the identity and purpose of PCUSA
Moderator’s call to the church: The need to restore trust and reform the denomination is urgent
14 Comments. Leave new
We left our PCUSA congregation several weeks ago because of the denomination’s actions. It’s too late, in our estimation, for the denomination to “change in order to reach this ideal.”
Many churches have already left and there was no effort by leaders to listen, really listen and understand, their views of Scripture in relationship to “mission”. There has been attaching a monetary value to property, but not to the message and vision of those churches.
With so many churches having left or in process to leaving, there will be a skewed Voice about what is the vision going forward. Yes there are still conservative churches, but they are not the majority. In the past the votes were close, that may not be the case now.
Further compounding the out come of this “call and survey” is that Presbyteries are merging as they drop to less than 10 churches.
Check out Northcoast Presbytery that has absorbed Alaska Presbytery and Central Washington. The votes and input from this Presbytery may now be much more progressive than in the past when all the out comes were more conservative. There are other Presbyteries that are also merging and going forward the out come of the votes and vision will reflect this.
If Heath Radda and OGA really want a true hearing of God’s voice they should listen to churches in discernment or have left in the past two years.
This is not about one divisive issue, this is about our confessions and the authority of Scripture ordering our vision and way forward according to God.
There needs to be a true waiting on God, humbly in prayer, with listening and searching Scripture and ourselves. That is something that cannot be done in a survey. It takes God raising up leaders who can help the church be intentional in seeking God’s way forward, not our way forward.
Here is the one message I would give OGA: God will cause and allow all circumstances to come about in order to get His people to be totally dependent on God alone, totally in need, until you confess that there is no other place you can go for help. Be prepared for God to act!
I completed the “conversation” last night. Let me share two of my responses.
First I was asked to suggest a “motto” or “mantra” for the PCUSA similar to the UCC’s “God is still speaking” or the UMC’s “Open hearts, open minds….” My suggestion was “Anything goes.”
Second, when I reached the end and they asked for demo graphical information, of course it included this: “With what gender do you most closely align? Male _______, Female _______, or Other ________.” I decided to check ‘Other’ and filled in the blank with “Canine. Proves my point, ‘Anything goes.'”
Just my 2 cents on the whole process.
I am stunned by Rada’s call for a “conversation.” It is too little, to late. The conversation will not bring about change! Our congregation left PCUSA more than a year ago to join ECO. The local presbytery called for a conversation with our congregation as part of the discernment process. It was nothing but a farce.
The representative of the presbytery that I met with made it abundantly clear that she was not at all interested in the concerns I expressed and was quite condescending. Those members left in the denomination must realize that the presbyteries and headquarters are not their friends.
I was chair of our session’s personnel committee a number of years ago when the local presbytery, based on their interactions with a few of our congregation members appointed an administrative commission. The presbytery violated the Book of Order and procedures regarding an administrative commission. The commission ignored the session’s input, and disregarded testimony from members of the congregation.
After more than a year, the commission was dissolved although the damage was done. Our pastor grew the congregation from 400 members and a large debt to more than 1,800 members, no debt, and multiple additions to the church facilities.
Although the administrative commission took no action, we’ve never recovered. Our pastor was a gifted preacher, excellent administrator, and actually called on members of the congregation. If anyone was hospitalized, he was usually at their bedside within hours.
However, he was never accepted by the presbytery leadership and shunned because he was seen as “conservative.”
I could list multiple other problems I’ve experienced with local presbyteries and certainly the problems with Louisville are well known.
I don’t see the “conversation” resulting in any real change. I regret that those remaining in PCUSA will have to deal with the chaos and damage that has been done.
I had the feeling they did not know what their function and purpose was supposed to be!
The PCUSA has been on a questionable path for decades (example, Grant to help defend Angela Davis – an avowed Communist.) If PCUSA had been serious about listening to its individual members, it would not be in the position it is in with dwindling membership and entire congregations moving away from it.
To them having a conversation means they’re supposed to do all the talking and you’re supposed to do all the listening.
In a basic entry level statistics class 101, you learn the concept of ‘designer bias”, where the author or creator of a diagnostic measurement tool, creates the tool in such a way to confirm their inherent bias or get the data which they want to get, at the exclusion of other data which would not confirm their preconceived conclusion.
Poster child of this is of course the brain dead PCUSA and their OGA institutions which only seeks data and inputs which confirms what they want to believe. All is well, and the chosen path is the double down on the secular, pagan-humanist path which brought them such a bright future. Again, well done PCUSA.
I wonder if Eric Berne had a name for this behavior in his (now almost ancient) book, “Games People Play.” I’ve been watching the PCUSA playing this “let’s have a conversation about it” game since its inception in 1983, and the outcome of the conversations have always been, as you say Peter, exactly what the designers of the game intended from the beginning. More and more of us have stopped playing this game because we have grown tired of being played.
Does the survey really ask about gender that way? I went to look, but when I answered that I switched from PC(USA) to PCA the survey told me I was not qualified to continue.
One wonders what prompted this action after decades of ignoring the problems. Could it be that the ever-shrinking contributions and tithes, as more and more Christians flee from the apostasy and endorsement of sinful behavior in the PCUSA, has finally attracted someone’s notice?
If they really wanted to know the issues, it would seem that they would ask the people who have already left, however they are excluded from this survey.
Yes, Dave C. Question 13 reads “With which of the following genders do you most closely identify? Male Female Other. Other has an empty box so the person can say what “other” they are. I’ve posted a photo of the question above in the article.
All this devisive action and judging over the support of simple human rights. He said to love your enemies, he said to not judge, he said to love the Lord, your God with all your heart, all your soul, with all your strength and all your mind and love your neighbor as you love yourself. That was and remains the new commandment. Do you just not like yourselves? That’s the only thing that makes your hatred and fears make any sense. You are treating them like you treat yourself? Or are you just choosing to disobey the Lord God?
Go ahead and twist some words not even stated by him, go ahead and justify your hatred, predudices, fears and undermining behavior with random text taken out of context to suit your will. To tear down his church and break apart his followers for your will can only result in a shrinking family of worshipers as you drive the decent loving people away. You can use your best hateful, self righteous babble to explain that one in the end. He wilo still love you but don’t expect good seats or special treatment!