Three Presbyterian denominations continue to grow

I don’t think the recent growth in the PCA came from PCUSA churches. Its been a long time since a PCUSA church went PCA, perhaps 15 or 20 years, I would guess.

She continued, “Doing the math, if those who left the PCUSA were all joining a sister denomination in the Presbyterian family, then the numbers for ECO, the EPC and PCA would be even higher. So one question would be: where have all the other historically Presbyterian people gone?”

A lot of them are dying, and not being replaced by children, or leaving the church entirely when they become adults.

We know of a couple of congregations that have been dismissed from PCUSA to PCA in recent years. There’s also migration from the PCA into ECO and EPC. But I was actually referring to the people, not just in-tact churches. I personally know of several former PCUSA members who are now very happy in the PCA. – Carmen

there was a congregation in Iowa that left the PC(USA) for the P.C.A. since the exodus began.

Honestly, with how things are going, stance on abortion, same-sex marriage, and the Islamic prayer at GA, I’m surprised there’s anyone left in the PC(USA). After meditating on Psalm 1, I know I cannot stay associated. Realize also that with fewer other Presbyterian denominations in many locations, my situation, the exodus also sends people to independent churches and Baptist churches.

It is pretty hard for a congregation to vote to go from the PCUSA to the PCA. A pastor would have to go from officially believing in women’s ordination (or else they would lose their ordination) to officially not believing in women’s ordination (or else they could not be ordained), and that transition takes time. It is much easier to go to the EPC or ECO.

Individual church members can make the switch much more easily.

At least one PCUSA church recently became PCA. I remember reading about it. Ohio, I think. Don’t know if there were more.

Where have all the PCUSA people gone? Lots of different places. I’m sure I’m not the only one who found my way to the Catholic Church. When the denomination you grew up in becomes apostate, you do a lot of praying, thinking, and researching before you join another church. It would be interesting if people leaving PCUSA were asked why they left and where they went, but PCUSA probably doesn’t want to know.

I attend an Eastern Orthodox church, there’s a regular inflow of Presbyterians, including myself from over 20 years ago. So they go all over the place looking for a refuge from this madness. The PCUSA is a city on fire, once people are out of that scene for a few months, unlike Lot’s wife, they never look back. For those of us that left a long time ago, it boggles the mind that people have been sitting in the pews listening to the endless compromise for year after year.

It takes a tremendous amount of faith to believe that over time the remnant of faithful will weather this storm of apostasy. Let’s hope not all the churches cave.

A PCUSA church in Ohio, Veto Presbyterian Church, left and joined the PCA this year.

Veto Presbyterian Church in Ohio left the PCUSA for the PCA earlier this year. http://theaquilareport.com/veto-presbyterian-church-in-vincent-ohio-withdraws-from-pcusa-joins-pca/

When my church joined ECO a little more then 10% had voted to stay in the pcusa. We lost more then 10% when it was finished. There is not another local pcusa

In the above mentioned denominations, the PCUSA will always see the local church as either an income center to be milked, used to their own ends, or simply no more than a platform or soapbox for their latest social justice crusade or cause. Again, where God is neither praised or worship, why should any one expect His blessings, and individual or a denomination. Its a logical and theological absurdity. So they either move, drop out, leave or just die off. Its not rocket science.

I always want to know the following, and it seems as good an opportunity to ask as any: What is the median size of a PCUSA church now? And what are the sizes of the smallest PCUSA churches, the ones that theoretically might have the most likelihood of dissolving in a year or two? As Pew reports that the PCUSA has the oldest median age of all mainline churches, it continues to seem to me that the smallest sized churches may react quite quickly and suddenly with that median age, to cost the denomination more churches than usual, one year soon.

John, the last reported statistics that I have seen are for 2014, which list the median congregational membership at 84. I would guess that as of 2015 it has dropped to 81. The 2014 comparative statistics book notes that out of 9829 congregations, 39 had no reported members, 3213 (32.8% of total # of congregations) had 50 or fewer members, 2289 (23.4%) had between 51 and 100 members. As you can see, 56.2% of all PCUSA congregations have 100 or fewer members. Almost 1/3 of all PCUSA congregations count 50 or fewer as members. These are the most vulnerable to dissolution over the next decade due to changing demographics. Of course, these losses are independent of the significant PCUSA net membership decreases experienced over the last number of years due to congregations leaving the denomination for theological reasons.

You nailed it.

I agree. There will be attrition, especially among the older members, which may result in the smaller churches closing, and creating smaller churches out of medium sized churches. There don’t seem to be many being born into or joining PCUSA churches to replenish the membership. Under those conditions, it seems to me possible that every one of the median sized PCUSA churches, and smaller, could be gone in, let’s say, ten years.

Thanks for your answer and the information.

The news is even worse for the PCUSA. On an institutional, corporate level the official response to the great de-population of the denomination was the “1001 New Communities” initiative run out of the paragon of virtue and transparency the PMA. And has been reported in many circles, that program was scandalized by its own administrative incompetence, bordering on the criminal, and that saga has come to an end. As a result in year 6 of the “1001”, few if any of these initiatives will ever get to place of viability or can even be called church in any means of word and sacrament. In essence a sham.

Further the PCUSA has made its bed with the actuarial bet that the so called “millennial” generation will flock to its message of Christianity lite with a strong measure of secular social activism and pacifism. Forgetting the Quakers and Unitarians beat them to the punch on that 300 years ago. That wave has not come for them, nor will it. Folks liberal, conservative, black, white, rich, poor, demand a Good News and Hope far beyond the PCUSA’s limited capacity to grasp let alone understand. Hence the entity is in a death spiral. There is no changing that. It is demographic as well as theological reality. What arises from the ash heap is anybody’s guess. Mine is a 400-500K national membership base, something along the lines of a mish-mash of Episcopal, Unitarian, Quaker, New Age, Native pre -Christian tendencies and behaviors.

From 2014 to 2015, Infant Baptisms dropped 12.25%. You’re already seeing the signs of demographic collapse.

Your guess is certainly as good as mine, but I could imagine an endpoint with far fewer PCUSA members. Possibly none. So many churches will leave. So many churches will be dissolved. So many members will wander away, and new members don’t seem to be seeking out PCUSA churches. There will be fewer new members born to the aging membership. Even churches that are now larger than the median will sink below that number. And in the end, you don’t have to govern yourself by means of a session, or pay per capita to the PCUSA, to indulge in the mixture of beliefs that you think will result. You just don’t have to be Presbyterian, or belong to the PCUSA. You used to see Stuckey’s and Howard Johnson’s everywhere. Now there may be one or two left, somewhere, but you don’t see them. I could imagine PCUSA churches being the Stuckey’s of the mainline religious establishment.

Of course…churches/members leaving one denomination for another will result in the one declining in numbers with the other gaining. What on earth does this prove?

Also to your point, any women serving as elders or deacons in a congregation that transfers from the PC(USA) to the PCA would be divested of their ordination, as were most of the officers serving in the much-alluded to Veto Presbyterian Church, which is currently a mission church, not a fully-vested congregation, in the PCA.  Nearly all Evangelical churches remaining in the PC(USA) by the year 2000 had made their peace with women’s ordination, making it highly unlikely that a given congregation seeking to separate from the PC(USA) would regard the PCA as a good fit.
 
And also to your point, the PCA congregation in North Texas where my wife and I worship has, in the two years that we’ve been there, received into its membership several former members of one or more of the three PC(USA) congregations in town, including the couple that joined this past Sunday.

From the perspective of discussing the future of the PCUSA it is insightful. A church is people and not a building nor a bank account not an endowment.

Church growth is usually accomplished via some combination of three different avenues. One is the internal organic growth that should result from the education and discipleship that comes into the lives of the children of adult members. The demographic trends within the PCUSA do not hold much hope for that path. Another avenue would be through the witness of the Gospel to those who are not currently followers of Jesus Christ. The most recent G.A. concluded that Evangelism is not a path the PCUSA would pursue. The last avenue for growth would be the transfer of believers from other streams of the Christian faith to membership within the PCUSA. This would be the path you apparently contend is immaterial.

So the final takeaway would appear to be the long term prospect for the PCUSA is hopeless.

A congregation called United Presbyterian Church in Sandersville Mississippi and Lyons presbyterian in Lyons GA voted to join PCA as well as Veto

A congregation called United Presbyterian Church in Sandersville Mississippi and Lyons presbyterian in Lyons GA voted to join PCA as well as Veto

In response to “anonymous” about the end game. Have been a commissioner to 3 GAs over my career, as well as numerous Presbytery councils. Much like the end game at Lehman during the financial crises the only question corporate had was. “did the check clear’? Or in essence do I get paid again on the 15th. Most at the GA level, Louisville, OGA do not spend allot of time either in worry, prayer, concern for the travails or struggles of the local church. Their concerns more or less center on matters of the bureaucracy, PMA, lawsuits, lawyers and alike. OGA/Louisville servers more or less as a vehicle or extension of the social witness-lobbying efforts, NEXT, the covenant group, BLM and alike.

As example, the great de-population of the church, systemic collapse, really does not come up on their radar of concern. Again, as long as the checks clear. So, the end game is when the money streams runs out, or their bureaucratic matrix begins to implode, which it is already in some areas. Another example is at the last GA what happened. Rather than electing competent or seasoned professionals to run the organization, or at least have some grasp on how to run a complex organization, they chose reflexive partisan ideologues for the top 3 positions. People more suited to a bull horn and soap box than organizational or management competencies. Tells you all you have to know. With of course, the expected results.

Very true, that you are right on.

So maybe the next General Assembly of the PCUSA will be held in a bowling alley. The first to get a strike or a spare can be the new moderator.

Another pretty small Presbyterian denomination is growing, too, and has been consistently for over two decades. That is the old Covenanters, the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America. Growth was about 1% this past year, with a substantial number of new folk being by profession of faith. Growing numbers of infant baptisms as well as adults coming out of the world, and increasing numbers of baptized members making profession of faith before their Sessions. And these last are not counted as changes. Large families help, but a deep commitment to Christ and His inerrant Word is what God (in grace!) honors.

By the way, the PCUSA/UPCUSA (after 1958) is what I grew up in, in the bounds of the Presbytery of Cincinnati. I’ve been RPCNA since my senior year in seminary in 1979.

As a sub, I generally preach to from seven to 20.

I would have liked to have seen mention as to how the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is faring ,too.