By Peter Smith, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
With an emotion-laden but amicable debate preceding a largely symbolic vote, the Pittsburgh Presbytery on Thursday narrowly endorsed a measure allowing same-sex marriage in church life.
Ministers and elders in the presbytery voted 122-110 in favor of an amendment to the constitution of the Presbyterian Church (USA) that allows but does not require its churches to host same-sex marriages and its ministers to perform them.
The vote has no practical impact because the amendment, passed last year by the denomination’s General Assembly, received ratification by mid-March from the needed majority of presbyteries, or regional governing bodies. Also, last year’s assembly had immediately authorized same-sex church weddings in states such as Pennsylvania where they are allowed by law.
The Pittsburgh Presbytery is the sixth-largest in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) with more than 30,000 members across Allegheny County. In past years it had voted against ordaining non-celibate gays or blessing their relationships. Several churches have left the presbytery in the last decade over liberal trends in the denomination, including a 2011 amendment removing restrictions on the ordination of gays and lesbians.
By the time members of the Pittsburgh Presbytery met Thursday at Bower Hill Community Church in Mt. Lebanon, however, no one was talking about leaving. Those lining up at microphones stopped to embrace each other before debating.
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“The Rev. Sheldon Sorge, general minister of the presbytery, said afterward he believed the vote and the debate showed a belief that “this is not something over which the church ought to be divided.”
And there in lies the problem, drinking the louisville kool-aid, where’s he been the last 3-5 years, you gotta be kidding me, WOW!
funny pres, I never said anything about anybody leaving, I’m just surprised that after all the chaos your ilk has produced in the pcusa, that he would make a comment about a divided church on this issue.
It seems the organization is trying to buy institutional peace by the use or employment of the concept or theory of “mutual forbearance” on the matter of behavior and practice on all things sex and sexuality.
Does that same concept and methodology apply to the so called property in trust clause or per capita? Does that same implied grace apply and freedom of associations? I can hear the crickets now.
So why trust you now in this?
Love seeing these stories with pastors in their church robes and frilly garb. Such buffoonery tells me all I need to know.
The claim is made that no pastor, no session and no church has to perform a same sex marriage. What happens if one or two on a session want to allow SSM, or if a pastor disagrees with their Session. What happens if sessions are split. Will their be a war of wills and words? Who will be in charge in such a case? This is just another way to create chaos at the local level. The result will be split churches, angry congregations, lack of leadership, and headaches.
The division will be worse that any from past disputes. It will not be a place of unity, peace or purity. The idea that the amendmantt will bring unity is la myth, it will only show how foolish our leaders have been to put forth such ridiculous amendments. And the people who are voting Yes are just like sheep following the leader over a cliff.
From the vote totals, I get the impression a lot of conservatives have just given up.
Hard to believe this happened in western PA which has been historically conservative for so long now. Well, “so long now” to PCUSA, a denomination that lost its way over the past 20+ years to apostate beliefs. PCUSA churches in central PA voted in a similar fashion and are now witnessing the exodus of several more churches from their fold. At this rate PCUSA as we know it, will probably cease to exist within the next 30-40 years.
Not likely. I would anticipate that within 30-40 years the PCUSA will have shriveled down to its Theologically Liberal core, a much hollowed-out shell from what it was 50 years ago, and smaller than evangelical Presbyterian denominations, such as the PCA, the EPC, and the ECO. This core will be able to live (or slowly die) for years off of the income that it has received from endowments and the settlements it has reached by enforcing its unjust property trust clause. The PCUSA will look no more Theologically Liberal in 30-40 years than it does today, and although it will be significantly smaller, it will not have died out.
Good point Loren, and you are probably right about the Theologically Liberal core. If the average age of a Presbyterian today is 65, then that means a significant number will have died out by then, in addition to the masses that jumped ship for more conservative waters elsewhere.
Now that the PCUSA has successfully elevated the BOO above Scripture and the Confessions, they’re losing NET 4 churches and 1778 members every WEEK. Half the church losses in 2014 were dismissals-which has slowed likely due to the increasingly harsher “guidelines” being implemented across the presbyteries. At some point, they’ll have to start selling off all this accreted real estate to survive as the Church of Scotland is now doing. Might be a lesson there folks! The Church of Scotland was much smarter in dealing with the issue of “same sex marriage”. They REFUSED to compromise scripture and have instead established a detailed procedure for a kirk to vote for “DEPARTURE” (think “scruple”) from ‘the historic and current doctrine and practice of the Church…’ Departure is initiated at the level of the congregation hosted by the session and has to occur 2 times with majority voting for “departure” EACH TIME. If that ends positively, there’s a long list of procedures that follow. OBTW: No minister or deacon has yet been licensed to perform such a ceremony and no requests by the Church of Scotland have been made.
Stand by for the GA in 2016 which will contain overtures to REMOVE the discretion. Then get out of the way for the stampede exodus by many pastors (and congregations) that have already related that will be the final straw.
There was no mass exodus after Amendment 10-A passed. Nor after 14-F passed (at least not yet). I don’t expect a mass exodus if the discretion clause is removed. I’m still in close contact with the 600-member congregation of which I was a member before leaving PCUSA. As far as I can tell, the reaction of that congregation to 14-F passing was a collective yawn. The same people fill the pews every week. For them, there doesn’t appear to be a “last straw”, an action by the GA or their presbytery that will stir them from their comfortable habit of passively going back to the same church week after week.
There’s quite a few Presbyterian denominations whose sessions and presbyteries (stacked with elitist/leftist cultural types) voted for homosexual marriage; but their dear life long, multi-generation souls sitting in the pews didn’t understand, or even don’t know what happened. They were quite frankly kept in the dark, or deceived. And they don’t understand how ‘the flawed, stacked PCUSA system works. Here’s the question: shouldn’t brochures, etc. be prepared and given to Presbyterian USA individuals so they have full information on these issues? Next, then let the members vote on dismissal. Bet quite a few denominations whose sessions and presbyteries are stacked with sociopathic leftists would vote to leave. Some ministers and leftist activists would resist such action with all their might, choosing to deceive and lie to their dear members in the pews.
As my ancestors came from Ireland and Scotland, I keep abreast of news from that part of the globe. After seeing the British election results last week, it’s obvious the English/Great Britain model, and its cultural decline, has issues. England in particular has become a pagan, socialist mess. But new doors are opening. Even with the British media deceiving the voters and even Obama’s team working with the lefties, the election had positive results.