Robert Kopp
In a time when many churches are seriously considering their denominational futures, an Illinois congregation is calling for others in the Presbyterian Church (USA) to join a movement and declare themselves as a “remnant church in the PCUSA.”
First Presbyterian Church of Belvidere, located in northern Illinois, is the first in the denomination to declare itself a remnant church following actions of the 221st General Assembly in Detroit June 14-21. The congregation, led by the Rev. Dr. Robert Kopp, made the declaration during June 22 worship services as an encouragement to sister churches and judicatories within the PCUSA who are called to remain in the denomination and faithfully serve Jesus Christ.
The statement, which can be found on the church’s web site, reads:
“You’ve probably heard disturbing news in recent days from Detroit about our denomination. Our elders remain steadfast in declaring, ‘As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.’ While our denomination increasingly drifts from Jesus by the book, we will, depending upon God’s grace, order our life and ministry on the corner of Lincoln and Main with prayer, proclamation and passion for Jesus by the book. While confessing our sins against our Lord and each other, we will not affirm, condone, or cooperate with any actions of our denomination that insult God’s holiness as personified by Jesus and prescribed in Holy Scripture. When we are wrong about Jesus by the book, we will confess and repent. When we are right about Jesus by the book, we will remain steadfast. Please join us in praying for the knowledge, wisdom, strength and courage to look up, stand up, speak up and act up for Jesus alone as above all others.”
In declaring itself as a remnant church, FPC-Belvidere is affirming the covenant renewed at Shechem when the tribes of Israel committed to serving the Lord and obeying Him, casting aside any foreign gods and idols among them. It follows the passage from Joshua 24:15 which reads, “But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”
The declaration also affirms John 14:6 where Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Not about changing the PCUSA
Kopp said he and his congregation are not seeking to evoke change in the PCUSA but trying to witness to the saints who remain in a denomination he labeled as “irretrievably apostate under its current management.”
“It’s been a tough time for all of us, and these issues date back a long time,” he said of decisions made by the PCUSA’s General Assembly regarding same-sex marriage and divestment from Israel, among other issues. “These actions came as no surprise to us. Our folks were prepared and knew this day would come, this abomination by the GA. We always talked about remaining faithfully in the PCUSA. We believe we should act more in the Reformed tradition to witness in a hostile environment rather than hide, run away or quit – more in line with the lives of Martin Luther or Dietrich Bonhoeffer. They can throw us out, but we’re not going to leave.”
In its call to be a faithful remnant of the PCUSA, the FPC-Belvidere family of faith stands by the following statement: “Through the centuries, God has always saved a faithful remnant in a sick and sin-filled world. Let it begin with us!”
“We are the remnant that remains faithful to Jesus Christ,” said Kopp, who worked with Pastor Paul Roberts on the Confessing Church Movement toward making a clear distinction between cultural accommodation and historic Presbyterian theology in 2001. “Our church has become more energized to become a faithful witness in a hostile climate. We are no longer the majority in the denomination but a decreasing minority.”
Kopp referred to the Beatitudes found in Matthew 5, observing that those remaining faithful to Christ in a denomination that has strayed from authority of Scripture and Lordship of Jesus will be blessed for the persecution they endure because of Him. He noted that those choosing to be the faithful remnant are called to “salt and shine, and plant the Gospel seeds.”
“It’s no longer a matter of winning on judicatory levels. It’s a matter of remaining faithful,” Kopp explained. “I’m not willing to forsake the saints still in the church who need shepherds to pick up their rods and staffs and defend them. I’m trying to be faithful, and to me, faithful means not running away from the fight.
“The goal is not to win. It’s to be faithful. I’m not willing to tell those struggling with what is going on in the denomination to go to hell. I’m more concerned with saving as many as I can.”
Becoming a remnant church
Kopp said the start to becoming a remnant church consists of three initial tasks.
First, “stop feeding the beast.” He alluded to per-capita apportionments being voluntary rather than mandatory or a form of tax, and encouraged congregations to “stop enabling the bad guy.”
Second, he encourages congregations and individuals to redirect resources to judicatory personnel and programs that honor Jesus by the book.
Third, Kopp said congregations should no longer report statistical data to the denomination.
“It’s early in the process, but we encourage folks to make the declaration and start with these steps,” he said.
‘Look up, stand up, speak up, act up’
Kopp thinks the PCUSA will become a Unitarian Universalist denomination with no standards, basing its stance on what is right, good, moral and just on the likes of leadership at a particular time. To address that, he wants to see congregations in the denomination be a witness to those acting out of infidelity to Jesus.
“So many have quit and gone to other churches and denominations,” he said. “To pull from an old Confessing Church slogan, we need to ‘look up, stand up, speak up and act up for Jesus.’ The real courage to be a missionary is to get out there and serve, not leave. Our denomination is the best mission field open to us in this day. The whole point in doing this is the hope that less folks will run, hide or quit.”
That being said, Kopp is not convinced that the PCUSA can be renewed by any means other than a rebirth experience.
“The bureaucracy is so firmly entrenched it will take something like a Red Sea miracle to change it,” he said. “Other than being born again from above there’s no hope of winning the PCUSA back to Jesus.”
For that to happen, the denomination has to be on the same page in its views and beliefs on Christology and Scriptural authority and realize that polity will not be the tie that binds.
“Until we have Jesus in common and the Bible in common, we have nothing in common,” Kopp said. “Polity will not save the PCUSA. Only conversion will save the PCUSA.”
Remaining faithful despite hostility
Kopp said he has been threatened to have charges brought against him for his views through the years, but he refuses to back off from his stance or his efforts to witness to those remaining faithful to God still in the PCUSA.
“I’ve known this was coming. I’m not brooding or broken. In fact I probably feel more determined than ever to encourage people to remain strong, remain courageous and remain faithful to Jesus,” Kopp said. “If we honor and follow Him we need to remember that we are going to spend more time with Jesus than anyone else. Therefore, we need to remain in His corner.
“All I’m trying to do is to encourage people who want to remain faithful within the denomination. That’s part of our heritage, to remain consistently faithful in a hostile environment.”
Noting the challenges that await the PCUSA Kopp recalled the words uttered by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. the night before he was assassinated in April 1968. Speaking to striking sanitation workers in Memphis, Tenn., King said, “I don’t know what will happen now. We’ve got some difficult days ahead.”
“I have no illusions of recapturing the PCUSA as it was,” Kopp said. “But I know for me to honor the Lord is to speak up for Him. I do love Jesus, by the book, and I encourage those trying to honor Him, even as a minority having such hostility cast toward us.
“I’m not doing this out of anger but out of a love and indebtedness to a denomination that introduced me to Jesus, nurtured me to follow Jesus and did not turn its back when I sinned grievously. How can I turn my back on it now?”
Anyone seeking information about becoming a remnant church in the PCUSA can contact Kopp by email at drkopp@belvpresbyterian.org or by visiting www.koppdisclosure.com.
35 Comments. Leave new
Good for them, I suppose; but have they really accomplished anything at all by issuing this statement? Their presbytery remains in control.
Well, good luck with that. When your pastor moves on, how will you find a new minister? You will be under the presbytery and will be forced to pay a supply minister, their choice, the same salary you paid your minister. When you call a new minister, you can be overruled by Presbytery, who can simply not certify him if he doesn’t subscribe to their heresies.
this makes perfect sense. there’s really not enough time left to be rearranging the deck chairs, worrying about real estate holdings, who owns what, legal action, letter writing to higher powers in PCUSA etc.
The presbytery only looks like it has “control”. The Lord Jesus has never relinquished one iota of control of His Church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If the denomination is the mission field, you should not be a member of the denomination. That’s not what a denomination is supposed to be. The denomination is supposed to be the base from which the particular church reaches out and a means for accountability in that mission. I’m all for working for renewal within the church, and you can’t leave for every disagreement, though Presbyterian history is littered with such actions. However, if the denomination is apostate, it is not the base of operations, nor is it a place of support or proper accountability.
Good move, Bob. The FPCWellsboro.org Session is organizing to discuss these issues on Wed 7/16. As a former member of Blackhawk (Waltham, Utica), I follow and appreciate your heart for both the “franchise” and the congregation you serve. Blessings. Glen
Style over substance…symbolism over living out of your core values.
No one should be threatened in our church for their views…..no one. The PCUSA is being highjacked by a few of the Rev.Ash types, I know that’s not majority of us, on either side.
I am an elder at FPC Wellsboro. There are so many groups of presbyterians and so many splits I’m not sure who to affiliate with or how long they will last before they also go astray, still and am not willing to waste my energy on this denomination. (Unbelievers with clerical collars on.) I think there are more important aspects of the ministry of Jesus for us to focus on.
When a session of a church in cincinnati selected and called a conservative minister to head their traditional church, the presbytery of cincinnati closed the church. This is the tactics liberal presbyteries are using. So I agree with the above comments you cannot remain in the denomination at all. Members of sessions have been driven to despair in their presbyteries and have had to resign to save their spirituality and mental Heath.
I think this is a very good thing, but it’s probably much easier for congregants to support the concept when your pastor is the one leading the cause. I have read various articles and letters from people who plan/feel led to stay and fight for the truth. I think it is admirable, but I often detect subtle undertones which make it sound like those leaving the denomination are lacking a boldness and willingness to fight for God’s true word. When you are in a church where your pastor is “okay” with what the GA did, or even if he/she simply doesn’t seem to understand how it affects every congregant and the church’s ministry, it is a very different scenario. For parents who depend on their church to teach God’s word and affirm their Christian parenting as a church family with a Godly leader, it is not safe to stay. There are many people struggling right now with “do I leave or do I stay?” and each has a special story. I personally believe that this is a fulfillment of prophecy, and that some people have been deceived and don’t understand why we all just “can’t get along”. I have always been able to appreciate another opinion or position when debating a topic, or even when arguing. This is the first time in my life I cannot understand how someone claiming to be a Christian doesn’t “see things my way.” It’s scary madness! But I digress. My point is, if you are in a church where no one is asking questions about this, and your leaders don’t seem concerned, then don’t just walk away……RUN. The minister featured in this article is a rare-find. The PCUSA has made it nearly impossible for their pastors to engage in any type of discussion which remotely sounds like a potential departure. For most churches, the questions need to be coming from the pews. If you know your pastor is someone opposed to the GA actions, he/she could likely be praying for someone to stand up and ask questions. But like I said, if your pastor is one of “THEM”, GET OUT and take your children!! God bless you. I love you.
When this pastor eventually retires, what then? What will the next pastor look like, given the shrinking pool of orthodox candidates in the PC(USA)? What will the people in this church be taught then?
This is a big issue. Churches that choose to stay can perhaps be a good witness to their denomination in the short-term. Over the long term, however – this becomes a challenging problem. Even if the church find another candidate that subscribes to their beliefs (and this is a big IF), the Presbytery will have to approve it., which they may – or may not.
I’ve seen churches go from theologically conservative to theologically liberal in a very short time simply because of a bad choice of a pastor and/or the actions of a Presbytery.
May this never be true of this church.
Kevin, you might want to do some research about the end times, including the Book of Revelation, Old Testament, more recent prophecies related to what we’re seeing in PCUSA etc. many of us believe it’s ‘one minute before midnight’, so to speak, and the clock is ticking. although no one knows the future, and that is certainly true of end times prophecies, evidence is overwhelming that the amount of time left is so small that many of us believe ‘long term’ planning has become irrelevant.
i started out working as a corporate financial analyst for a living, for several top global corporations, that evolved into working as an independent trader, analyzing the financial markets. almost no one knows how bad things really are right now, a very small number of technical analysts in the world. when the masses find out just how hopeless the global financial situation is i assure you the amount of time it would take for the end time events to occur is faster than any of us can imagine.
each of us has been called to perform a role at this critical time in history. in the silence of listening to Jesus he speaks, telling us exactly what we are to do, that’s the impression i get of Dr. Kopp, he is simply doing what Jesus has told him to do. if recent prophecy (last hundred years or so) is correct it is my understanding we will get a miraculous warning from Jesus, enlightening everyone about what’s going on. it’s then that someone like Kopp is perfectly positioned to doing much needed ‘missionary’ work inside what’s left of the brick and mortar churches. eventually all of them are supposed to succumb to outside darkness, we’re already seeing that now.
HIS Church in no way resembles PCUSA. After 46 years, packed up my marbles, my organ music, my children, grandchildren, my lifetime PW pin, elder certificate, and fled the scene.
No one knows the day or the hour.
In the earlier comments of Doug (7/14) and Lance (7/15), there are some important points to note.
Please consider, further, some things that scripture seems very clearly to put before us:
1) In Revelation 2, the letters to the churches of Ephesus and Pergamum (among others) are clearly relevant to this present crisis. Ephesus, despite its waning love, is praised for rejecting fellowship with the Nicolaitans. Pergamum, on the other hand, is faulted for accepting the Nicolaitans in fellowship.
2) In Luke, Jesus insists that the disciples must not accept the “leaven of the Pharisees” into their fellowship. Then Jesus confronts the fleshly assumption that His task is the creation of comfortable unity: “Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” (Luke 12:51). (Isn’t this in line with Simeon’s prophecy, in Luke 2?)
3) In very compact form, John speaks similarly (II John 9-11)–while at great length, Paul delivers these same sorts of messages again and again (such as in Galatians and II Corinthians).
The PCUSA has declared not merely its fellowship with–but now its allegiance to–a culture that holds the Gospel in contempt. How are we to live and witness “in Jesus’ name” AND in the name of the PCUSA? This, at the very least, should lead us to wonder whether Doug may be correct to assert, “If the denomination is the mission field, you should not be a member of the denomination.”
Pastor Kopp and FPC-Belvidere have been open and deliberate in their effort to follow and to witness for Christ. They’ve done better than I have, so far. Yet, even in the idea of a “remnant,” is there not a time of coming out, of becoming separate? One great remnant came out of Babylon–leaving a great multitude of exiles behind. Was this the only remnant to which a call to separation was proclaimed, “Depart, depart, go out from there; touch no unclean thing” (Isaiah 52:11)? Surely not, since Paul quotes this to the Corinthians, even as he is preparing to confront their wrong tolerance for false apostles (II Cor. 6 and 11).
I read Revelation 2. It may be reasonable to infer that “Ephesus, despite its waning love, is praised for rejecting fellowship with the Nicolaitans. Pergamum, on the other hand, is faulted for accepting the Nicolaitans in fellowship”, but I did not find this thought there. What I find is that Jesus is commanding the people to repent – the people who eat food sacrificed to idols, who practice sexual immorality, and who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
The issue for me and for my church became one of being unequally yoked (2 Cor. 6:14-15). We increasing saw less and less common ground between our commitment to be a gospel centered, biblically based church and what the PCUSA was becoming. We have long seen a steady trickle of members departing our fellowship because they were embarrassed by and did not want to be associated with the actions of the PCUSA. Any church will have struggles and challenges, but it shouldn’t come primarily from your denomination. We are now in another Presbyterian denomination and it feels so good to be in a like minded and supportive fellowship of congregations. Life is better with the PCUSA in our rear view mirror.
A remnant you can not be, a resistance movement standing up for the faith once for all delivered to the saints, yes.
“Yet, even in the idea of a “remnant,” is there not a time of coming out, of becoming separate?”
it’s my understanding you are correct, if efforts fail to correct our brothers and sisters in Christ. in the time of Jesus they didn’t have the big denominations we have now, churches were in their own little world, travel and communications were limited, so it was a lot easier to understand what he was teaching. the confusion comes when an individual church, small group, is going an entirely different direction from the denomination. personally i find this hard to believe, since the tenets are right there in black and white on the internet these days, and have been there for years. why anyone would still be PCUSA after all the liberalism that crept in long before now, i don’t understand.
my point was logistically with all the chaos going on about real estate, money and so forth, it’s not clear that time spent in what are essentially legal battles is worth the effort at this late stage in the decline of Christian morality; all organized Christian churches are experiencing some form of PCUSA liberalism. i applaud the pastor’s effort to stay and fight as long as possible, who knows, maybe a miracle will happen, meaning the majority of the PCUSA leaders will have a change of heart. obviously if his little flock takes a turn for the wide road then he has no choice but to separate.
Leaving is the only way to go. We left the UCC for the ARP for the exact same reasons.
No, but things look really bad right about now for those placing their hope in the world.
Stephen,
While I agree that the Nicolaitans are called to repent, it appears to be the fact that the Nicolaitans have had some acceptance in the church that is most at issue in the message to Pergamum. Pergamum was a pagan city–so the Nicolaitans don’t seem to represent anything extra-evil in the general context of the city (which is even said to be “where Satan’s throne is”). It is not the city of Pergamum that is addressed, but the church. And to the Church–not just to some Nicolaitans in it–Jesus says, “You have some there” who follow “Balaam” or “the teaching of the Nicolaitans” (Rev 2: 14, 15). And while the most serious threat is against the Nicolaitan followers, the church is also under threat: “…repent! Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and fight against them…” (2:16).
I’m away from home, at present, but I’ve just found a line from Matthew Henry that seems fitting:
“To continue in communion with persons of corrupt principles and practices is displeasing to God, draws a guilt and blemish upon the whole society: they become partakers of other men’s sins. Though the church, as such, has no power to punish the persons of men, either for heresy or immorality, with corporal penalties, yet it has power to exclude them from its communion; and, if it do not so, Christ, the head and lawgiver of the church, will be displeased with it.” (Matthew Henry, commentary on Rev. 2:12-17; accessed at BibleGateway.com).
So very grateful for the witness of Dr. Kopp and First Belvidere. So many churches made the decision to leave when it became clear to them that the would no longer be on the “winning” side (from an earthly perspective) in parliamentary decisions. Thanks be to God that Jesus did not leave when He knew that He would not “win” (from an earthly perspective) over the Cross. Dr. Kopp hits the nail on the head when he reminds us that we are not called to win, but to be faithful. The challenge to be faithful when one’s views are ascendant (i.e., represented by the majority) pales compared to the challenge to be faithful when one’s witness is from a minority perspective. Yet is this not the very challenge that every follower of Jesus is called to embrace? “Count it all joy, my brethren.” If we are to bear witness to a Savior whose steadfast love endures forever, Whose forgiveness knows no end, and Who never forsakes His children — even though they whip, beat, spit upon, torture, and murder Him — then we must needs display the same unconditional and unfailing fellowship with others that He does with us. To consciously acquiesce to any lower standard is to deceive ourselves and to betray the Gospel. This by no means requires that we accept and agree with everything our brothers do or say – to the contrary, it means (as the Belvidere church’s position affirms) being that much MORE vigilant, faithful, humble and loving in one’s own conduct, even as we join with our Lord Emmanuel in affirming that “I will never leave you.” This is the true nature of the Gospel witness, a witness whose strength lies not in the coercive power of majority rule, but rather in the self-denying grace that pleads, broken-hearted, from its place of ignominy on the Cross, “Father, forgive them.”
May the Lord continue to bless, guide and prosper the ministry of First Belvidere and Dr. Kopp.
People who have already left the PCUSA haven’t necessarily been guilty of just wanting to win. This is far too simplistic an analysis (or accusation) on your part. Your comment seems to conflate a worldly concern with winning with a New Testament concern with purity and obedience. Yes, Christians are called to be faithful–but this means to be faithful in obedience to Christ..
Faithful obedience carries no automatic requirement that Christian sit calmly under a banner that itself now openly compromises the Gospel. Consider how Paul addressed some overly tolerant Corinthians:
“In fact, you put up with it if someone enslaves you, if someone devours you, if someone captures you, if someone dominates you, or if someone hits you in the face” (II Cor. 11:20).
I believe also that you mistake the context in which the apostle instructed us, “Count it all joy, my brethren.” This is our stance toward the persecutions of “the world”–it is not our stance toward a wayward church. You throw in Jesus’ claim, “I will never leave you”–as though He does not allow any ever to walk away from him. You speak of “unconditional love”–but it does not sound like the holy love of the righteous God who calls us out of our loyalties and capitulations to the world system. The church at Ephesus sounds so exemplary, and yet–and yet–even that church was threatened with the loss of its “lampstand” (Rev. 2:5).
Ultimately, you seem to conflate Christ’s perfect love with a call to sustained fellowship with apostasy. This is neither a biblical position nor a reformed position. If anything, it seems like you have voiced something that sounds easiest to reconcile with a universalist position. While I doubt that this is what you were after, did your concern to “win” this argument, perhaps pull you in this direction?
That’s exactly where our small PCUSA congregation is headed. Our conservative, orthodox pastor left to be closer to family. His replacement was unengaged and left a short time later. Now we have a liberal presbytery-approved interim and it’s clear that even if we found a doctrinally solid new pastor (in the PCUSA? Hmm), the presbytery would find some reason not to approve. Rock and a hard place, indeed.
I’m a conservative pastor in the PCUSA & have served conservative churches. There are still many other conservatives/traditionalists/evangelicals in the PCUSA. I admire Robert Kopp for his remnant church stance. & we see ourselves in much the same way. The vote in our presbytery was very close on gay ordination; if a large conservative church had not left, our presbytery would have voted against gay ordination. There is a future for conservatives in the PUCSA. Our presbytery has voted to approve the ordinations of several young conservative pastors in the last few years.
Don’t u ever disagree with your spouse or adult child? Does that mean that u leave him/her & stop have a relationship with him/her? Staying in the PCUSA means recognizing that we don’t have get our way. Servants continue serving even when things don’t go their way. Did Jesus stop serving when the authorities arrested him & tried him unjustly?
Remnant churches will continue to serve & witness & participate in the PCUSA for decades to come.
Thank God that our faithfulness doesn’t always mean winning.
Amen to Kevin R !
Amen.
Faithfulness is all about following where Jesus Christ leads. If Christ calls you to remain in the denomination, then stay. If He calls you to come out and be separate, then get out! As for me and my congregation, we have been called out and we are doing our very best to get out. It has never been about winning or losing; it has always been about obedience to the call of Christ. It doesn’t help to have sisters and brothers in the Lord – fellow conservatives – intimate that there is something wrong with us for leaving. We don’t question your belief that you are called to stay – it would be nice if you didn’t feel it necessary to disrespect us for doing what we believe Christ is asking of us. My prayers are with all those who feel called to stand as a remnant – I hope that yours will also be with those who are called to do something different, but no less faithful.
BTW, this is in response to Mr. Keyes, above. With so many comments, I realized that it might not be clear.
I have lived through this splitting and re-splitting in the Reformed Church in America a well as the Christian Reformed Church (close kin to the Presbyterian Church). I’m here to tell you that once you split, you will split again…and again…and again…until you are left with ten little congregations instead of one large one. The first split will seem meaningful and just; the remaining splits will come over building projects and which hymnal to use. Mark my words: we reformers are a splitting bunch and it don’t bode well for our unity of the church.
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