Achtemeier speaks at the Covenant Network of Presbyterian luncheon.
DETROIT, Mich. — “The church’s error in this issue is undermining the credibility of Christian witness for an entire generation,” the Rev. Mark Achtemeier told the audience at the Covenant Network of Presbyterian luncheon on Monday.
He was speaking of the PCUSA’s current stance on same-sex marriage, at an event was held in conjunction with the 221st General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
Achtemeier, who used to be identified with the evangelical, conservative wing of the PCUSA, changed his mind on the issue of gay ordination and same-sex marriage in recent years and just published a new book, The Bible’s Yes to Same-Sex Marriage: An Evangelical’s Change of Heart.
Achtemeier quoted several Barna surveys that showed young people were leaving the church, and many cited the rules and attitudes about homosexual issues as the cause.
“These are people who have enough residue of the gospel in their hearts,” he said, “that the teaching of exclusion does not sound like Jesus. It’s not a true picture of the King.”
“This sounds to me like a gospel emergency,” he said. “I don’t see how the disciples of Jesus could not step forward to address this error. … This is an unprecedented spiritual disaster that is taking place beneath our noses.”
What to do, he asked?
“The answer is tricky.”
Achtemeier proposed John 15:5 as a guided compass for “what we do in this General Assembly and beyond.”
John 15:5 reads, “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.” (NIV)
“Our first priority,” he said, “is to nurture that vital connection with Christ, the true vine … without Him we can’t do anything … you cannot have fellowship with Christ the Incarnate Word without a vital connection to the written Word f God.”
Quit hemming and hawing about Scripture, he advised, “The Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, and it cuts in the direction of compassion, wholeness and justice. So, let us set aside our hesitation and let us take our stand on Christ … apart from Him we can do nothing.”
Achtemeier said that “we are joined together with each other .. no matter how cantankerous or disagreeable some may be at the time.”
“The next time you encounter fellow believers with whom you disagree, treat them as the women and men they truly are — beloved children of God, brothers and sisters called together with us in one spirit. … when frustrations overflow — accusations, bitterness — let us rejoice in the opportunity God gives us to return good for evil and so give witness to Christ.”
After “generations of erroneous teaching,” said Achtemeier, “it is within our grasp to move our beloved church to a truthful witness.”
He said the church acts publicly “as if we enjoy a consensus on this issue that does not exist.” He said that when charges are pursued against a pastor who performs a same-sex marriage, the church acts as “if it can speak with one voice on the marriage issue.” Achtemeier says, “it needs to stop.”
“The church needs a Directory of Worship, instead of a Directory of Litigaion,” he said. “We trust that God will one day lead our church to consensus on this issue.”
Proposals for redefining marriage to include same-sex, bisexual and transgender people is before the General Assembly this week in committee 10: Civil Unions and Marriage Issues.
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Really – young people are leaving because of the church’s stance on homosexuality therefore we should change the biblical standard?
If we follow his argument, the only hope of the church is the promotion of more promiscuity and extensive syncretism since that’s the conclusion of the young people who are both inside and outside the church. The problem is not homosexuality, the problem is an honest discussion regarding sin and its long term consequence (temporal and eternal).
Sadly, the only thing Mr. A is accomplishing is promoting more confusion among the honestly searching and fire-power for those committed to justifying their sin instead of submitting to the Lordship of Jesus.
There is indeed an unprecedented spiritual disaster afoot within the PCUSA, but it is the opposite of what Rev. Achtemeier would suggest by his remarks. If the PCUSA moves in the direction that he recommends, the denomination would adopt a secular stance, likely little different from Unitarians, making Rev. Achtemeier’s Scriptural arguments ring hollow.
What does This matter? Mr. Achtemeier sold out to culture and syncretism years ago in a self-serving reversal. That young people are leaving the church over this issue is not a reason to abandon the clear teaching of the Word of God. If this is why they leave, one must wonder if they were ever really here? Is this not more a case of pastoral and preaching malpractice?
The bottom line for increasing numbers of faithful Presbyterians is that the decisions of the GA mean little or nothing to us. We will continue to live in accordance with scripture and the dictates of our conscience(s) and ignore the ongoing apostasy of the church councils. Most of us will see the final collapse f the PC (USA) as it becomes nothing more than Universalism-Lite.
The unprecedented spiritual disaster in the PCUSA is Mark Achtemeier, who was the primary catalyst that started the denomination’s downward spiral into apostasy. Dr. Elizabeth Achtemeier would roll over in her grave if she knew of the damage that her son has done to the PCUSA and to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
When you look at what churches young people are going to (and not leaving) it is the evangelical ones with historical conservative beliefs. Scan any city and find out which churches are growing with young people, and I think you would find this speaker’s comments to be incorrect. Yes, there is a great issue against hatred and homophobia, but churches who hold historical views and are conservative on this doesn’t mean they are either of those two things. You can hold a belief that may be counter to culture and not agree, but that doesn’t mean you are hateful or afraid. This speaker isn’t doing research on actual churches out there. The liberal progressive ones are the ones losing younger people overall and ironically the conservative evangelical ones are the ones growing.
Achtemeier has done a superlative job — of distorting the Truth of Scripture. His cozy words of inclusion and compassion imply that you must reject, of course, Gods clear teaching that homosexuality is a perversion..
It reminds me of another’s words:
Genesis 3:4 (NKJVS)
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Does anyone else remember when Mark Achtemeier and the Presbyterian Outlook tried to smear the Layman about 8 years ago? The Layman reported that Mr. Achtemeier (placed on the PUP committee as an evangelical) had changed his theology to accept the ordination of practicing homosexuals. Achtemeier said it was a lie. The Outlook blasted the Layman for faulty reporting. Now we know who told the truth.
Doesn’t 1 Corinthians 5 deal with sexual sin by saying that someone promoting it, such as Mr. Achtemeier, should removed from the church?
Paul,
You cited John 15:5 with “I am the vine; you are the branches.” Together they form the tree that troubled Nebuchadnezzar as he lay awake dreaming of ways to tear apart the Jewish race and with it the Christian church “that shall be in the latter days.” (Daniel 2:28) Together, Daniel and his friends through continence avoided the perils of marriage – homosexual and heterosexual – and were brought out of the fiery furnace of lust to lead the people to the lamb, the Bride of Rev. 21:9.
I am always suspicious in church history or the contemporary church of those who turn 180. It seems that Rev. A saw winds of culture blowing in one direction and he lifted his sail to catch the wind.
Of course, if he wind of culture shifts, his sail will need to be repositioned.
In faith, one needs or gets one shift, because conversion does not
move with culture but with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And beware of false spirits.
Dr. Achtmeier says, “These are people who have enough residue of the gospel in their hearts, that the teaching of exclusion does not sound like Jesus. It’s not a true picture of the King.” Sir, with all due respect, in the whole of Scripture, the King was very exclusionary.
Yes, Here in Central FL, the churches that are growing the fastest are those who believe in the sanctity of scripture and hold fast to what has been traditional values…especially the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s where the young people are going!
“Achtemeier quoted several Barna surveys that showed young people were leaving the church and many cited the rules and attitudes about homosexual issues as the cause.”
Were this true, then the churches that are growing in this country would be accepting of homosexuality. Is there any data to support that? The growing churches in my area, particularly with young people, are evangelical in nature, holding true to Scripture.
It really is irrelevant as to what kinds of churches are growing. Certainly, we are not going to change our message to gain numbers. Do we truly think that God needs our help with His messaging? It certainly makes me happy that the growing congregations in our area are the ones that hold a high view of Scripture and teach the cost of discipleship, but the opposite would not change my approach.
Scripture does not support the “Marriage/Family Unit” consisting of same-sex individuals. How sad that the upper body of a church has to crumble to the wishes/demands of a few! –How politically correct!!
As Jesus explained, the narrow gate is the way to go… Expanding it leads to destruction.
There is a pattern here. Rob Bell gets “further light” and is rejected by some.
Mark gets further light and is rejected by some.
They may be closer to The Way of Jesus than some of the critics.
One thing for sure, when I was a Presbyterian, “fair” was not a concept that I saw very often among the very conservatives.
I remember one Presbyterian objected to the Presbytery dealing with social issues. Eventually I learned that he was involved in illegal gambling activities. No wonder he focused on other “spiritual” issues that would not interfere with his journey in life.
Another time some Presbyterians were spreading incorrect information about something dear to my heart, based on a newspaper article. I went to that person and showed them another newspaper article that corrected the information this person had decided to believe. Even with the evidence “in hand” this individual would not change his mind. What does it take to help individuals change their mind about a very unchristian position? Whatever it takes, come quickly, Lord, come quickly.
Don’t worry. I am no longer a Presbyterian. And I am not young either. LOL.