Responses to the Presbyterian Church (USA)’s decision to change the definition of marriage so that same-sex marriages may be conducted by PCUSA pastors and in PCUSA churches have been varied – from pain and tears that the denomination has departed from Scripture to jubilation that all can be married in the church.
The 221st General Assembly Moderator Heath Rada and Vice-Moderator Larissa Kwong Abazia released a statement encouraging PCUSA congregations, presbyteries and synods to continue discussions on marriage and family.
“We hope that such ‘up/down’ voting does not mark the end, but the continuation of our desire to live in community; a partnership that requires prayer, the study of Scripture, listening to and with one another, and a dedication to partnership in the midst of our diversity of opinion,” they wrote. “We trust that God whose Word brought Creation into being is also the same Word that speaks to us today. With confidence, we believe that God calls the Church into living as a transformative community that embraces the call to be God’s beloved community in the world.”
In a video posted on the denomination’s web site, PCUSA Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons made it clear that there was “nothing in the amendment to compel any teaching elder to conduct a wedding against his or her judgment nor a session to host one against its judgment.”
He then referred to the denomination’s Book of Order (F-3-0105) which “encourages us to exercise mutual forbearance toward each other when we differ that forbearance should show itself in respect and genuine care for each other. As a church, the Presbyterian Church (USA) has received much grace from God in Jesus Christ. We should extend that grace to each other in all gentleness as we live into this common chapter of our life.”
The Office of the General Assembly (OGA) issued an advisory opinion on the approved amendment of W-4.900 – the section of the constitution where definition of marriage can be found.
According to the advisory opinion, the new wording, which goes into effect June 21, 2015, allows teaching elders to perform marriage services for same-gender couples, “as long as the couple ‘meet the requirements of the civil jurisdiction in which they intend to marry.’”
It also makes clear that:
- “A teaching elder cannot be compelled to perform a marriage service for a same-gender couple.”
- “Sessions may permit the use of church property for the marriage service of a same-gender couple.”
- “Sessions may deny the use of church property for the marriage service of a same-gender couple.”
- While a session can prohibit same-sex marriage from being held on church property, it cannot prohibit the pastor from performing such a service elsewhere. “The pastor cannot compel the session to approve a marriage service nor can the pastor conduct any such service within the church facilities without session approval.”
Other responses
“God will not be mocked,” said the Presbyterian Lay Committee board of directors. “Those who substitute their own felt desires for God’s unchangeable Truth will not be found guiltless before a holy God.”
“The PLC continues to call for repentance and reform: repentance of those who have clearly erred and reform of the PCUSA according to the Word of God.”
PLC President Carmen Fowler LaBerge said that “In terms of the PCUSA’s witness to the world, this vote demonstrates a complete accommodation to the prevailing winds of our culture. Any prophetic voice that the denomination may have once had to speak truth and call people to repentance is now lost. All she can do now is echo the voices of the world for she has abandoned the clarion call to bear faithful witness to the God who has clearly spoken on this matter.”
In a statement posted on its web site, the Fellowship Community said that by “approving this change we are disregarding the clear teaching of Scripture, the wisdom of those who have lived and died for the faith before us, and the continuing consensus of the contemporary church around the world. To do this is both disobedient and unwise. We know this particular change was intended by its proponents to extend the grace and the good news of Jesus Christ, and to further the witness of his Kingdom. We believe it accomplishes neither. Our objection to the passage of this redefinition is no way anti-gay. Our concern is that the church is capitulating to the culture and, in so doing, is misrepresenting Scripture.”
The Presbyterian Church in America felt led to make a statement after it received “numerous emails and calls regarding the recent action of the mainline Presbyterian Church (USA) in redefining marriage.”
PCA Stated Clerk L. Roy Taylor wrote that the PCA “like other evangelical, conservative, orthodox, and traditional Christians from many branches of the Christian faith, believe that, from creation, God ordained the marriage covenant to be a unique bond between one man and one woman. This biblical understanding is what the Church has always believed, taught, and confessed. Therefore, we believe that the divinely sanctioned standard for sexual activity is fidelity within a marriage between one man and one woman or chastity outside of such a marriage.”
Blogger Viola Larson, wrote that the PCUSA is “now, with clarity, stepping beyond biblical Christianity by changing the Book of Order to allow for same-gender marriage. In many other ways the denomination has turned her back on her own documents without changing them. She has allowed apostate ministers to teach her people heretical and damming doctrines. She has allowed her most precious gifts, her unborn children, to be killed. But none of this has entered into her constitution, theBook of Confessions and theBook of Order. … And this will not be the end of new revelation, new twisting of Scripture. When the door is open to darkness in the name of religion a deeper darkness occurs. … The candle of the denomination is going out—it only burns in those who still hold tight to the biblical witness.”
On the other side of the issue, the Covenant Network of Presbyterians board of directors posted a statement in which it says the “change aligns the church’s constitution with a reality that has long been true: Both same-gender and opposite-gender couples have been living in relationships that demonstrate covenant faithfulness, shared discipleship, and mutual love. We rejoice that all couples can now see those relationships solemnized before God and the Christian community in marriage, at the discretion of ministers and sessions.”
The statement continued: “We are also aware that the discussion has been a difficult one for many, and that some will feel a deep sense of pain over this decision. The Covenant Network is committed to fostering healthy dialogue and working with those who hold a view different from ours, seeking opportunities for us to model an authentic and productive unity. We continue to affirm that ministers or sessions whose conscience precludes them from officiating (or hosting) same-gender marriages should not be compelled to do so or in any way disciplined or excluded for those views.”
“Today, we can bring our whole selves to church,” said Alex McNeill, executive director of More Light Presbyterians. “Ratification is not the end; it is the continuation of ongoing sacred conversations. This is the next step in our long journey to minister to all of our people.”
“This vote is the culmination of decades of selfless service by so many people. More Light empowered courageous Presbyterians to host honest conversations about marriage within their local Presbyteries,” said the Rev. Robin White, co-moderator of More Light Presbyterians. “Today we are rejoicing! So many families headed by LGBTQ couples have been waiting for decades to enter this space created for their families within their church communities.”
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27 Comments. Leave new
Orthodox Presbyterians who are still members of PCUSA: Why?
“Stay and fight” was once a viable alternative; but that time is long past. The fight is over, and has been lost. If you stay, your next battle will be a losing one to try to preserve the “conscience clause”, which will be abolished by the GA and presbyteries as soon as they feel they have the votes.
Imagine what the hundreds of thousands of orthodox Presbyterians in PCUSA might accomplish if, instead of pouring their time, energies, and treasure into a dying, apostate denomination, they were to pour them into a vital and faithful one.
As an elder in the church, I have seen the church drift away from the core of Christian beliefs. I am not without fault or sin, but I wanted to attach myself to a faith community faithful to God as revealed through holy scripture.
I always thought that loyalty to God and country came easily in the church, but now I have hit a wall. So the church now permits marriage between practicing homosexuals. It has apparently turned its back on Israel in favor of those Muslims that looks at us as enemies and infidels. It does not condemn abortion as a murderous act, and it sees no purpose for the Second Amendment, nor would it defend that right. How can I support this church when I am so opposed to the positions that it has taken? My wife is Catholic, so I’ll probably wind up leaving this church to join her in a way of worship that still adheres to the Word. Maybe that will work for me, and maybe not, but I see no path to continued support of the Presbyterian church.
“The 221st General Assembly Moderator Heath Rada and Vice-Moderator Larissa Kwong Abazia released a statement encouraging PCUSA congregations, presbyteries and synods to continue discussions on marriage and family”
You can talk about gay marriage and family all you want they have no problem with that, just don’t talk about your church wanting to leave with its own property, that’s heresy.
14f was just the next logical step or progression of the process or evolution of the PCUSA over a matter of decades into more or less the wholly owned provence or apparatus of the cultural LGBT lobby.
Their playbook in terms of a religious denominations was for all to see in the ECUSA in the 1990’s and the rise of their rule on the process there. In all cases the foundational goals was the deconstruction of traditional polity paradigms and systems, and replacement with their socially engineered options. The end results are again, for all to see. Will the PCUSA lean even more heavily on the blunt ax of the property clause to survive, as the ECUSA does, or will they embrace the better angles of their nature and the aspects of mutual forbearance? Time will tell.
Much like the 17 year old who finally gets the keys to the car, the end result of the family auto in a ditch or or worse is expected. They do indeed own the process and people, as the 14f demonstrates.
My counsel is in the words of Betty Davis, “buckle up, its going to be a bumpy ride”.
Don’t forget the EPC – they put out a statement similar to the PCA:
https://epcepnews.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/epc-reaffirms-biblical-definition-of-marriage/
Who would have thought that Dolce and Gabbana would have said what they said about gay marriage, BTW my wife’s favorite cologne that I wear, then I see today, on Yahoo’s news the daughter of lesbian parents comes out against gay marriage. Then to top it off, one of my all time, bar none favorite singers, Sir Elton John wants a boycott against Dolce and Gabbana, but that’s ok, the pcusa just cleared everything up for everybody.
My brothers and sisters in Christ as a newcomer to the denomination this has been a disappointment to me. The wave of supposed popular opinion has made its way into the theological discussions where the PCUSA has changed their policies to the fad of the day. Secular laws meant for EQUAL protection not SPECIAL protections under the law have been used to coerce through a perceived threat of expensive and national litigations while governmental provisions already exist for same sex unions without needing the church or churches where in truth biblically such unions are prohibited. This decision is a result of a trend nationally of government overreach into the private affairs of individual beliefs and liberties. Rather than the influence of the church on governmental matters as has often been the case in recent history we have seen a secular government imposing broad litigation on matters that are clearly private amoung individual Christian denominations and parishoners prohibiting the free exercise of individuals who may not believe in pre conceived notions of a “new morality”. The idea of separation of church and state is a two may door, governmental authority cannot impose nor establish a religion or beliefs against an individual or groups of individuals regardless of what that religion may be. Litigants and government can no more tell us what to believe than our next door neighbor as back door measures have been taken to coerce or threaten individuals with limelight exposure in media and lawsuits. As a proud presbyter I will never leave my denomination nor my congregation until the good lord as called me, this decision is a disappointment, but given the set of circumstances most denominations are under at the moment I can see why it was made. This decision I am sure was not one done out of regard for correction of biblically sinful behavior, but as a stop gap measure due to a dangerous secular inquisition into private traditional religious beliefs amoung denominations, congregations, and individuals.
James Anderson, “My brothers and sisters in Christ as a newcomer to the denomination this has been a disappointment to me.” or “As a proud presbyter I will never leave my denomination nor my congregation until the good lord as called me”
You came up the ranks fast………………..
Sorry James H. forgot my “ian” 🙂 Though I am not one to shirk any calling of responsibility in future.
I joined the PCUSA 15 years ago after a long search for a church home. I served as an elder, helped in the presbytery and was married in the church. Watching the changes take place has been disturbing. Now that my church has fallen and the other mainline churches are following suit, I’ve lost my belief in church.
Don’t believe in the church, believe in Christ, and the rest will come to you.
First, there was “marriage is between a man and a woman.” Now that’s changed to “marriage is between two people.” Soon, it will be “marriage is between people.” Ultimately, it will be “marriage is whatever.” There’s no end to the potential creativity. How many people besides gays will want to get married in a PCUSA church now anyway?
Keep in mind…that our focus must be on the Lord Jesus…Jesus is our all in all…these people have hardened their hearts and unless they repent they will join satan for eternity..
James, it would have been better to have said to not believe in the PCUSA any longer as part of the body of Christ. But your emphasis on Christ himself is absolutely correct!
The vast majority of responses posted on this issue makes one sad that the heart and spirit of Christianity is being forgotten in a tempest over what the Bible says and what it says to us. In other words a continuation of the dispute between those who cling to inerrancy and infallibility of Scripture, based on how they interpret the Bible, and those who understand that while the compilers and authors of the 66 books were inspired, the inspiration was transmitted by humans beings into written form reflecting the knowledge and culture of the times in which they wrote. And that translations of languages spoken 2,000 to 3,000 years ago can make clear to all whether reading texts in English, German, Chinese or other language the exact meaning and nuances of the material. There is much in the Bible that is clear, such as the Ten Commandments whichever version you choose. Most important is the New Testament and the message of Jesus, a Jew in whom “the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” His teachings evolved into what is now Christianity, even though humans because they are humans have divided Christianity into branches, denominations, and subsets almost all over disputes as to the interpretation of individual verses including which books belong in the Bible, the status of women, a battle nearly ended, and many more such as the current same-sex marriage controversy. Let’s remember what Jesus told us to do: to love our neighbor as ourselves, even our enemies, to assist those who are poor in spirit and body, to preach the gospel, as St. Francis of Assisi said, even if you have to use words.
“Today, we can bring our whole selves to church,” said Alex McNeill, executive director of More Light Presbyterians. “Ratification is not the end; it is the continuation of ongoing sacred conversations. This is the next step in our long journey to minister to all of our people.”
OH after reading that I’m getting the warm fuzzies now………..
Phil True “the status of women, a battle nearly ended, and many more such as the current same-sex marriage controversy.”
These two “controversies” don’t belong together in the same sentence, but I’m sure you already knew that.
Yes, there will be many in a real hot place that they don´t want to be in it.
Phil- what will you say when you stand before the LORD.
Phil do you believe in a true conversion with repentance of sin? Why do you think Jesus die on the Cross? Is it for us to have an Esater Celebration of a Dead Christ and eat Chocolate Eggs?
Yes, one is to love the neighbor but one doesn´t have to condone the sin..Jesus loves all but he did not accept the sins of any one. he told them Go and Sin no more.
next a marriage between a man and a monkey! LOL
I think Jesus is crystal clear on this:
He said to another man, “Follow me.”
But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
Luke 9:59-60
I asked a PCUSA leader to prove to me where the scriptures agree with this decision..The leader tolde me —- It depends on your conclusions! LOL.
he then said to me- those who voted yes to the amendment were samrt and prayerful and allowed the Holy Spirti to lead them. What a heresy the man was preaching to me! God is not the Goid of Confusion… Man loves of Satan make them to do anything very contrary tyo the Scripture teaching.
I also am sick of the letter of the GA moderator and the vice— Grace and Peace from our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ .LOL…. Where is Christ in this decison when man manipulated the whole issue to fit the desire of pervertness.
When I was about 20 , there was a phrase- let your conscience be your guide… That was the formula for disaster for sure” One can´t be confused that concience is = to Holy Spirit!
I grew up in a PCUS congregation; was married in a second one; we raised a family in two PCUSA congregations over a 25 year period. So that’s four local churches to which I have great sentimental ties. Yet there’s not one of them I would stay in today, considering what the denomination has become. Clinging to a church because you don’t want to give up the property, or because you feel it’s “your” church and you’re not going to be driven out — that’s become a very problematic position to hold on light of what PCUSA has become. As others have suggested here, I believe it’s time to walk away — if necessary, without the property.
Before we go to far with comments about violating the law (Leviticus) we need to read Paul’s letter to the Galatians.
I left the PCUSA 20 years ago and became Eastern Orthodox. I left for entirely different reasons; back then I didn’t know a single Presbyterian who favored SSMs, and I lived in Seattle, which is saying something.
I am simply amazed that people can put up with this fight for decades and still hang in there. Wouldn’t you prefer a round of golf? What you have to understand is why this is really happening. Ultimately it’s not the fault of the culture. Churches in other very hostile places have maintained their faith for centuries, whereas American mainline churches have been defeated in a matter of a decade or so by a sexual minority so small it barely rounds up to 2%.
If you keep insisting that the answer is tighter biblical interpretation, you have to ask why it is that all the mainline churches and seminaries which started off as “biblical” are today not so. How does that happen? Why does it happen in large national churches, but not local ones? Why does it happen first in churches that are “biblical”, but not so much in churches that are “Traditional?” There are exceptions to these dichotomies, yes.
Thank the Good Lord that PCUSA has absolutely NO authority over my beliefs or my family’s beliefs. My support of my Presbyterian church is totally and completely voluntary, It ended when a bunch of abnormal gays and lesbians ruined my denomination. My local Presbytery actually voted to endorse practices and policies spewed forth by the PCUSA. The real problem with gays and lesbians is they demand to be recognized as “normal”, and are trying to FORCE their perverted life styles on Christians. When clear Christian doctrine is flushed down the toilet for the edification of ABNORMAL folks, PCUSA has lost all morale authority. The Prebyterian church can endure only so much. This is why the number of Presbyterians (PCUSA) are continuing of diminish. So all of you perverted PCUSA “managers” please accept this fact: Homosexuality is not now normal. Homosexuality will never be normal in God’s eyes. Your attempt to twist Biblical doctrine to justify your life style will NEVER make homosexuality “Normal”.