Presbytery ‘system’ appears to have lost its grip on grace
Posted Friday, December 18, 2009
The news from Seventh Presbyterian in Cincinnati breaks my heart. I preached there in 1992. Rev. Stan Wallace and his wife Betty had stayed in our home, in England, a few years earlier. Stan preached for me at St. George’s United Reformed Church in Newcastle upon Tyne, so I was returning the favor. They were gracious and generous hosts.
As for Seventh Presbyterian – the members were as welcoming as their pastor, faithful in worship and in Christian education, actively involved in mission in their community. Sadly, their story has been repeated around the country. Once vital churches struggle to maintain their facilities; vision is overcome by fear; the specter of closure freezes innovation. And yet, in this instance, it seems that the remnant did have a plan, and the finances to make one more effort to turn the corner. Even if it hadn’t have worked, at least they would have had the satisfaction of knowing that they had tried their best. Instead, for whatever reason, Presbytery pulled the plug.
A once-great church was hastened to its end and there was no dignity in its passing. I grieve for old friends, and for a system that appears to have lost its grip on grace.
Alan Trafford First Presbyterian, Lake Jackson, Texas
Consider dismissing presbytery from PCUSA
Posted Friday, December 18, 2009
I commend you on your editorial “What the PCUSA confessions say about marriage.” John Calvin had something to say about same-sex unions, urging those in need to be married and to stay in marriages rather than allowing gay unions as seems to be the current in American churches: Episcopal and even Lutheran.
Dismissal policy for churches is one thing; dismissal policy for whole presbyteries is another issue that PLC needs to wrestle with. The Baltimore overture is not its first venture into same-sex business: There comes a time when that presbytery needs to be considered for dismissal from PCUSA.
Culver S. Ladd, Ph.D. Lusby, Md.
Protesting your endorsement of the Manhattan Declaration
Posted Friday, December 18, 2009
I write first and foremost to strongly protest at your public alignment with the Roman Catholics through your signing and endorsing of the Manhattan Declaration.
In my view you have made a statement that our Reformers died in vain, yet the old Roman system has not changed. How therefore can you be a part of such?
Sola Gratia – Sola Scriptura – Soli Deo Gloria.
Raymond Stewart Northern Ireland
Actions by Cincinnati Presbytery are unethical, sinful
Posted Wednesday, December 16, 2009
I suppose being a long time personal friend of Dr. Ian Lamont as well as a non-PCUSA member does bias my comments, but it seems to me that the actions taken by the presbytery regarding the call by Seventh in Cincinnati are unethical at best and plainly sinful at worst.
To fail to discharge their duties to an historic congregation and effective minister in good standing looks to the rest of us in other communions as idiotic, petty and downright evil. We are talking about a good pastor’s reputation. Ministry of the Word is not just a job. It takes a devastating toll on his wife, family, emotional well being, not to mention the casual way the historic Seventh Church was allowed to close although having done its homework on a plan for the future and possessing what most churches would consider a more than sufficient amount of money to accomplish its plan.
To choose to believe rumors and lies, without even asking him any questions concerning those rumors is incompetent, and the parties involved should be the ones disciplined and held up to public scorn. But the world has so invaded the church that politics trumps ethics, and the personal agendas of persons in power outside of those who have given their time, labor and finances to build the church are given priority. The line in the contemporary song comes to mind, “The world is lost in the darkness, while the church is asleep in the light!” Does anyone really care?
J. David Hoke, Ph.D. Gibbsboro, N.J.
It’s all about the money
Posted Wednesday, December 16, 2009
The actions of the Albany Presbytery and the Presbytery of Cincinnati remind me of what many of us said several years ago: It’s all about the money.
Randy Jenkins Central Presbyterian Church, Huntsville, Ala.
‘We are not to let society transform the Bible’
Posted Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Thank you Carmen. This is so timely for me. At present, I am leading a committee in our church to revamp our marriage policy. With the current trend in our society, it is imperative to have in place a policy to protect God’s and the church’s description of marriage, between one man and one woman.
It is beyond me how someone who calls themselves a Christian can claim recognition of marriage between same-sex partners. Since our PCUSA leaders are not leading us in honesty to God’s Word, it is imperative that each church takes the reins themselves to protect marriage. The Bible was given to us to transform lives, we are not to let our lives transform the Bible. Through the Bible we are to transform society, we are not to let society transform the Bible. It’s our Christian responsibility.
So, thank you again for your leadership, Carmen.
Richard Conway
PCUSA tries to change God’s Word
Posted Wednesday, December 16, 2009
I can no longer accept the political, anti-Biblical views of the PCUSA. I have chosen to seek another Christian denomination that still believes in Biblical teaching. The PCUSA teaches it is OK to sacrifice our children to the false gods of convince and pleasure. It tries to change God’s Word as to what is sin. It has taken an active hand to harm God’s chosen people through divestiture of funds. It encourages lawsuits against fellow Christians. I have been a Presbyterian all my life and it hurts me deeply to have to make this choice.
David Christian
An overture to shut down the PCUSA-Washington Office is in order
Posted Monday, December 14, 2009
After reading the “PCUSA joins pro-abortion lobby in health care debate” article in The Layman, posted on Dec. 8, my blood pressure went through the roof. The PCUSA-Washington Office took its pro-choice stance on abortion to a new level by encouraging senators to shut down the Nelson-Hatch Amendment, so that federal funding of abortions wouldn’t be restricted.
The PCUSA-Washington Office seems to be another voice toeing the liberal, Democrat party-line. Exactly who does the PCUSA-Washington Office represent and where do they get their authority?
The PCUSA-Washington Office is on the wrong side of virtually every issue:
1. Pro-choice on abortion.
2. Pro-ObamaCare on health reform
3. Pro-Palestinian in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Read the Washington Office’s article.
4. Pro-cap and trade legislation. What about a lively discussion on the truth of global warming? Read the Washington Office’s article.
I find it troublesome that on these hot political issues, the PCUSA-Washington Office seems to be able to develop one-sided opinions and lengthy position documents that don’t represent the denomination’s membership. What about listening to and discussing both sides of these issues? What about researching what God has to say about these issues by studying Scripture and praying over them?
Finally, why are we as a denomination spending money to push a legislative agenda that is in direct opposition to the way the majority of the PCUSA membership thinks? The money should be spent to increase our number of missionaries and to further the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, instead of furthering the spread of the liberal, biased, drivel coming out of the PCUSA-Washington Office.
I think an overture to shut down the PCUSA-Washington Office is in order.
Bruce Tenenbaum, elder Mt. Lebanon United Presbyterian Church
‘Terminal’ Albany congregations a telling point
Posted Monday, December 14, 2009
As sad as the story about Jermain Memorial Church is, I think that the most telling point in the story is that 24 of Albany Presbytery’s 72 member congregations are considered terminal; not just in trouble, but terminal. That’s just shy of 1/3 of the churches in that presbytery. Makes one wonder what that statistic is across the rest of the denomination. Hmmm!
Mike Schrowang
Another sad example
Posted Monday, December 14, 2009
This is one of the saddest stories (Cincinnati Presbytery) that I have heard in the ongoing saga of the dismantling of a once vibrant Christian denomination that has left the path of following Christ and is now lost in the wilderness of secularism and the modern culture.
Apparently there is no room left in this denomination for those who lift up the Bible as infallible truth and Christ as the unique way to salvation and life. Absent those, what is left? Some empty lifeless real estate and some empty lifeless souls.
God have mercy, Christ have mercy. God have mercy.
Chris Burgess
Who decides, man or God?
Posted Monday, December 14, 2009
To those who want to change (or delete) key passages of the Bible, and to re-design the church so that it better fits culture, we need only post to them one simple question: Do we decide how God is supposed to be, or does God decide how we’re supposed to be?
And for the record, Jesus said, “Narrow is the way” Matthew 7:14.
Martin Estrin Glendale, Calif.
BLP textbook should not be used in public schools
Posted Monday, December 14, 2009
Yes, some acquaintance with the Bible is useful, but the Bible Literacy Project curriculum is definitely not the way to do it. For details see the article “The Bible Goes to School” in our journal Voice of Reason No. 94 (2006, No. 1), available on our web site – www.arlinc.org
The BLP textbook is so unbalanced and slanted that it should not be used in a public school. It is surprising that no one has yet challenged it in the Tennessee courts. Why, we might ask, are the state’s abundant churches not able to fill any perceived need? As Benjamin Franklin observed more than two centuries ago, there is something wrong when a church has to call on the government – or public schools – for help.
Edd Doerr, president Americans for Religious Liberty
Editor’s note: The Bible in the Schools program in Tennessee described in a story in the December edition of The Layman only uses the Bible as its only textbook. However, the story does mention the BLP textbook, which is widely used in similar programs across the country.
Appalled at our denomination
Posted Thursday, December 10, 2009
I am appalled that my denomination, the PCUSA, would take such an heretical stand against the U.S. senate health care provision that would take my tax dollars and use them for the taking of innocent life in the form of abortion. Does the current PCUSA health insurance plan also pay for abortions? If so what can be done to change this heresy in our church? Chaplain Gene Sipprell
Quran in conflict with the Bible
Posted Thursday, December 10, 2009
Just as Mr. Dirk Ficca does not know his Bible, he does not know or understand the Quran. Does the Quran not say it is okay to lie, in at least five instances? This is in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.
Just read the current issue of World Magazine and then you can understand why not reading and understanding both the Bible and the Quran are serious problems in our country. Because we fail to read and seek the truth, we make statements that may mislead many in the wrong direction.
Jim Skidmore Montreat, N.C.
The critics don’t understand
Posted Monday, December 7, 2009
For many years, I was a member of the Presbyterian Church, my grandmother sang in the choir at Hollywood Presbyterian in the 1930s and 1940s, I was married in Calvary Presbyterian in San Francisco in 1963, both my children were baptized in the church, my daughter was married in the church, and we both dropped out in 1996 because of all the left-wing, radical thinking since the union of the old church and the evolution of the PCUSA.
I feel that I must respond to the letters criticizing the Church for its stand and views on national health care reform and what it means to all thinking individuals. Have you never had a basic course in economics? Do you not understand that the people of this country do not want more government intervention in their lives? Do you not fully comprehend that we are going into debt so deeply that our great-grandchildren will never pay it off? Do you not understand that our freedoms and liberties are being taken away from us, one piece at a time by the liberal, extreme leftists in this country who espouse socialism? It doesn’t work, never will, and it will be far too late for any of us to change the direction of this country if it happens.
Our founding fathers were all good Christian men who believed in the separation of church and state. Our constitution is being circumvented, and our values are being eroded. No one ever speaks about tort reform, portability and health savings accounts. It’s your money that they are spending in all the wrong directions. Please wake up and take back this country before it is too late. Even our Judeo-Christian fundamentals are being taken from us gradually and the Muslim faith is taking over in various countries. Pretty soon, our Pledge of Allegiance will have UNDER GOD removed from it. Christmas is under attack from the left. There are more important issues out there right now. Health care is something that needs to be more carefully thought out, not something consisting of almost 2,000 pages of legislation that most people have never read or understand and then edited behind closed doors and crammed down our throats.
Think about it. If we don’t save our nation, our religious beliefs and freedom to worship God and Jesus Christ will be gone. You will not like the alternative and that will be the legacy you leave your children.
Joseph H. Gauthier Reno, Nev.