To what extent will ACSWAP go to thwart the openness?
Posted Tuesday, January 26, 2010
According to your article, Ron Kernaghan, co-chair of ACSWP made the statement regarding the quoting or reporting of the committee meeting or documents involved, “If they are using a word or two, it’s OK. The rules of plagiarism applied throughout academia apply here. The repeating of an entire sentence or paragraph is problematic.” Simply put, that’s a ruse. And it is patently false.
The rules of plagiarism, as understood and applied throughout academia, do not set limits such as he describes. What is most at issue simply is that sources are cited and that proper accreditation be made. In fact, the whole purpose of quoting is to put forth content.
What kind of nonsense is this? And to what extent will they go to thwart the openness which characterizes our Presbyterian polity and manner of life?
Rev. Steven L. Seng Torrington, Wyo.
Sacramento connects the dots on Belhar
Posted Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Congratulations to the Sacramento Presbytery for connecting the dots!
When I first enrolled in a PCUSA seminary in 2001, I became familiar with the Belhar Confession in my “Creeds and Confessions” course. Admittedly, I had never heard of this confession and found it unusual that it would share the pages with the Nicene Creed and the Westminster Confession. It was later, during class conversation, that I became immersed in the language of “inclusiveness.” That is when I realized the objective for Belhar: “discriminating …” (as in recognizing fine distinctions on matters of doctrine and morality) “…may be in violation of our standards.”
It was only a matter of time that Belhar would be used to label certain groups within the church as: “discriminatory – marked by or showing bias.”
Well, I am biased! And who isn’t? I prefer a Presbyterian denomination embrace the Scriptures, the ancient ecumenical creeds, and the Westminster Confession and Catechisms, and that’s all. Only the PCUSA has gone well beyond this, and now we know why.
Rev. Kent Moorlach Communion Presbyterian Church, Irvine
Twin Cities has an engaged evangelical community
Posted Friday, January 22, 2010
Thanks, Carmen, for the article. Yet, I encourage folks reading it (and this) to realize some important additional items:
- There is an active and engaged evangelical community within the Presbytery of the Twin Cities Area (PTCA). Though small in number, they approach work in the presbytery as an opportunity to “speak the truth in love,” and to proclaim the hope of Jesus Christ to transform sinners. They (and I, until transferring to Kendall Presbytery late last year) worked on a number of ways to try and bring accountability for beliefs and behavior among those ordained to Church Office in PTCA). In this arena, I was blessed to work in a team alongside two very gifted elders, and a very gifted pastor in a Remedial Case filed against the Presbytery; as we (and dozens of elders/ministers in agreement with us) believed the Presbytery erred in approving re-instatement of Mr. Capetz to the practice of ordained ministry. You would do well to consult with this group of evangelicals in the PTCA, as, I believe, you could learn much from their approach.
- There are a number of folks (Laity, Elders, Deacons, and Ministers of Word and Sacrament) from some of these evangelical PCUSA congregations who will be volunteering in various support roles to stage this GA meeting.
- PRAYER is so vital for these folks who seek to continue raising a Banner for Truth in the midst of what could be a very discouraging governing body.
In Christ’s peace and hope,
David L. Bierschwale, pastor First Presbyterian Church, Burley, Idaho
Another reason for skepticism
Posted Friday, January 22, 2010
Can you supply any specific information as to where or to whom we can voice our objection to the way the ACSWP meeting will be handled in regard to the restriction and use of materials or information involved at their meetings? I want to voice my objection to, at least, the idea that observers, press or otherwise, may not even quote or refer to process or content. If that is the case there is absolutely no point in giving them access to the meeting, except perhaps other than to simply placate them. Providing access but then muting observers is disingenuous at the least and perhaps evil at the worst. That is not the way we Presbyterians do things. These things don’t make it easier for pastors to encourage local participation in the larger work of the church. In only eight years of ordained ministry I’ve heard too many firsthand testimonies from churches and parishioners who are very skeptical of the higher levels of our “connectional” church.
Rev. Steven L. Seng First Wyoming United Presbyterian Church, Torrington, Wyo.
Editor’s note: To reach PCUSA Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons (ext. 5375) or Constitutional Services Director Mark Tammen (ext. 5433), call 1-888-728-7228.
Better bring a sharp memory
Posted Friday, January 22, 2010
The email you received said:
“Observers are given temporary access to documents before the committee on the understanding that they will not be quoted from or referred to in any outside literature, blogs or conversations until the committee has sent them on to the General Assembly or General Assembly Mission Council.”
Now as I read this … you can talk about what was said, subject to your ability to hear and rightly remember anything and everything that was said. You just can’t quote the papers. I also wonder that if someone from GAMC was in attendance whether or not their possession of said documents constitutes the sending on of them to said committee. Good luck and have fun.
Peace
Rev. Alan Wilkerson, pastor Kenton Church (EPC), Portland, Ore.
Not only un-Presbyterian but also un-American
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
I have been at the table when ACSWP and ACREC were meeting and never heard such a policy. This is not only un-Presbyterian but it’s definitely un-American!
These people serve at the discretion of the PCUSA and if my polity is correct and hasn’t been changed by the liberals in this church, yet, it is the people in the pews that rule it not committees of the General Assembly! That is the beauty of our system of ecclesiastical government. This is exactly what Martin Luther then John Knox and John Calvin railed against! Closed-door church government that could care less about what the people think. Sounds like that crowd in Congress to me.
The issues they discuss and the paper it’s printed on belong to the PCUSA. So I don’t get it. Sounds to me like the leadership of some committee is worried about the public having knowledge about their agenda! They don’t want publications like yours to get the word out on what they have up their sleeves on their liberal agenda, and liberal it is!
If Massachusetts can do it, we can too, Presbyterians! Don’t let this stand, absolutely not.
Rev. Irvin Porter Puyallup, Wash.
Activity is symptomatic of dying organizations
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
If the Department of Constitutional Services upholds the practice demanded by the ACSWP, the promotion of increased control will be further proof that the denomination is moving through the “bureaucratic phase” of the organizational lifecycle and is therefore caught in the throes of death. This kind of activity is symptomatic of dying organizations. As for the physical and journalistic sequestering, do not fear: Even the stones will cry out.
Paul Becker
Louisville should heed message sent to Washington, D.C.
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
In response to the ground rules that were extended to Carmen Fowler in anticipation of her attendance at the Advisory Committee meeting in Louisville, I believe the powers-that-be need the same kind of message that the people of Massachusetts sent to our U.S. government administration and congress Tuesday.
Henry Gray Reynolds, Ill.
Is leadership representing the people of PCUSA?
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
Perhaps the clan in Louisville is following the lead out of the people in Washington D.C. on how to interpret “transparency and openness.” When a denomination is shrinking and loses over 60,000 members in a single year, most intelligent people would question whether they were acting in a manner which represents their constituents – us – the people of the Presbyterian Church (USA). Our denomination seems to be regressing. If you recall, in the early days of the Catholic Church, only the priests could read and interpret the Bible – couldn’t trust the illiterate and unwashed masses to do those things. Looks like the PCUSA wants to return to such a practice for clearly most Presbyterians are not capable of understanding the various communications and pronouncements coming out of Louisville. Who said history does not repeat itself.
Jay W. Dull, elder Grace Community Church, Boca Raton, Fla.
PCUSA is acting like U.S. Congress
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
I no sooner get over reading about all the secret, private, closed, confidential, etc. meetings and sessions that our U.S. Congress is engaging in, when I get this information about similar activities that “our PCUSA” is involved in through such committees. Where do they get the authority to act as monitors over what we can know or say about their dealings? Who do they think pays their salaries to discriminate against the members of our and their denomination? I hope you get some good news from the attorney to which this question has been referred. Is there anyone in Louisville to whom I could express my angst against such imperious actions (that might do something other than trash it).
Prayers are with you in all your endeavors. Keep your hard hat on while beating your head against the wall.
George Uthlaut
Editor’s note: To reach PCUSA Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons (ext. 5375) or Constitutional Services Director Mark Tammen (ext. 5433), call 1-888-728-7228.
More consultation between U.S. churches, missionaries needed
Posted Thursday, January 21, 2010
You could call me a career missionary, having served 2 years in Japan and 17 in Malawi. I’ve just read the article [page 2 in the December Layman] about how to do missions on the cheap. My personal response: how sad.
Anyway, I thought I’d pass on the following story for what it’s worth. At African Bible College in Malawi, we run the ABC Community Clinic. One day, our doctor received a box of rolled bandages from my home church. I’m sure the Ladies’ Missionary Bandage Rolling Society had great fun putting it together. But our doctor looked at the outside USPS label that said that postage had cost $52. Upon seeing that, he sadly shook his head and said, “Man, I wish they had just sent $52.”
In an earlier letter, I wrote about the U.S. church that sent us a mission trip that involved a man in a Frosty the Snowman suit jumping around in front of children who will never see snow. As a humble suggestion, perhaps there could be a little more consultation between U.S. churches and missionaries about what is actually needed.
Larry Brown African Bible College, Lilongwe, Malawi
Presbytery spending money in a nonsensical manner
Posted Tuesday, January 19, 2010
As I read the report on the presbytery spending $300,000 for lawyers, court costs, etc. trying to prevent the Carrollton church from selling their property to the adjacent Christian school, I couldn’t believe that the presbytery could conceive to spend that tremendous sum of money for this purpose. When you realize where this money came from, the parishioners who gave this as part of their tithing as directed by the Lord, it is unbelievable that there could be any justification at all for this money that was given by these members for the furtherance of the Gospel, to be spent in such a ridiculous and nonsensical manner.
And now to have the synod say that they will support this case with even more money and request $3,000 from each of the churches in the presbytery, including the church with only three members, is ludicrous. Enough said!
Leonard Harding, elder Fort Square Presbyterian Church, Quincy, Mass.
The Bible really is as old as the traditionalists believe
Posted Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Concerning the article “Bible possibly written centuries earlier, text suggests,” I actually ran across that article a few days ago and forwarded it on to many of my friends. A friend of mine wrote back and related something that she experienced. She attends a PCUSA church, and a while back, the pulpit was vacant. A lady PCUSA minister came to candidate for the position, and preached in my friend’s church. In the sermon, the lady minister mentioned that the Old Testament was written by Ezra. Following the service, my friend spoke to the minister and said that she believed that the Old Testament was older than what was declared in the sermon. The lady minister’s response was that my friend was ignorant. BTW, that minister didn’t get the job (my friend is a ruling elder).
And so now it turns out that the Bible really is as old as the traditionalists believe. I believe that in the World Cup of Biblical truth the score stands at:
Evangelicals 1
Liberals 0
In all fairness, one must say that hitherto it has been the liberals who have done so much of the work of archaeological digs, decoding ancient texts, learning ancient languages, etc. But, as my friend the elder said, funny how the truth will out.
Larry Brown African Bible College, Lilongwe, Malawi
Letter highlights gap between the Gospel, PCUSA
Posted Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Mr. Bursch’s letter (1-13-10) perfectly exemplifies the rift in worldviews evident in the Presbyterian Church (USA) regarding the person and work of Jesus Christ. In his response, he wants set forth positively what Presbyterians believe. He states that Presbyterians “affirm that Jesus is savior, but not just of Christians, savior of the whole world.” If I am reading him correctly, Christians are just one group of people that Jesus saves. It is in fact, then a type of Christocentric universalism in which people of other faiths would be saved, but through the saving work of Jesus Christ.
Vulgarly, when a “saved” Buddhist dies, he will enter the door of heaven and in fact realize he has been saved by Jesus. This type of Christocenric universalism is prevalent in the PCUSA and can be construed from such official documents such as the Confession of 1967 (this is not the only interpretation of the document, but a possible). But this Christocentric universalism is rejected by Jesus Himself, who says, “many are called, but few are chosen” (Matt. 22:14).
Biblical theology confesses that salvation belongs to the people of God, and only, if we understand correctly, a remnant of those who publicly confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Matt 25:41-46). Those in the PCUSA who reject Christocentric universalism find themselves, not only at odds theologically, but at cross purposes with a denomination that rejects the need to proselytize and bring the whole world into submission to Jesus Christ. It is not necessary because Jesus will save them whether or not they come to faith. This panel and this letter highlight the widening gap between the Gospel message and the gospel of the PCUSA.
Rev. Bob Price, pastor Resurrection Presbyterian Church (EPC), Westmont, Ill.
Praying for the PCUSA to repent
Posted Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Please accept my condolences for the theft of the Presbyterian Church (USA)’s “Joy of the Lord which is our strength,” Nehemiah 8:10.
Every time I read The Layman my souls rejoices that we left the PCUS in 1977 and have grown in our worship of our Lord, in the confidence in His holy Word and the experiencing of victorious living and answers to prayers nurtured by faithful, stout-hearted members of the Presbyterian Church in America.
Oh how my heart grieves over the loss my UPCUSA friends have had because as Senate Chaplain Dick Halverson said: “There are none so cocky as those who do not know what they do not know.”
Obedience is an eye-opener but disobedience to God’s holy Word brings blindness and dire consequences. Satan gets the foothold to steal your joy.
My prayers are for the PCUSA to repent and become overcome.
Mary Ann Miller Little Rock, Ark.