It is too late for the Constitutional Presbyterians to ask sessions to adopt its Theological Declaration. A constitution, or any contract, is only as good as the character of those who are a party to it – and this contract has been broken by clever rogues who once promised to enforce it. Inasmuch, the Constitutional Presbyterians have failed to address one very important question, “Why should we bother?”
Jack O’Brien Pittsburgh, Pa.
When it comes to oppression, it boils down to my own self-inventory
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
Jack Harrison in his letter [posted June 28, 2006] remarked about the GA actions regarding PUP: “Let me tell you at The Layman, as well as my gay friends remaining in the PCUSA, that the church has not done gay people any favors by this action.” That is quite true.
However he is in error in my opinion about the integrity of those who choose to remain in the system and change it from within rather than leave it. This is not unlike the Civil Rights movement in the United States in the 1960s. African Americans chose to take a stand within the oppressive political forces rather than leave. And believe me I’m sure there were those in the U.S. that would gladly have arranged for African Americans and their supporters to leave the U.S. most conveniently if they were willing to do so. But thankfully no one left and we as a society are better for that even though in the area of race there is still more progress to be made.
One can take a purist point of view where there is simply no semblance of what may appear to be compromise and everything is simply black and white. On the other hand there is the more gray area where one has to simply take a leap of faith and think some good will come out of the mess. Persons in favor of justice did this in the U.S. and the church is no different and in particular the PCUSA.
When it comes to oppression I’ve found in my own case it really boils down to my own self-inventory and relationship with God. Not what another person or group of persons decide.
Am I oppressed today in the PCUSA? Not today. I might feel otherwise at other times. But it is my freedom to recognize where I am at a certain point in time. And I feel it is important to extend that freedom to where others may be. That is what it really means to be truly free and not oppressed I think. And that is the gift of God I do appreciate. Just being myself where I am on my own journey of faith and being OK with that.
Earl C. Apel, member Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church , Cincinnati, Ohio
Questioning the terms
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
It would seem that the trustees of presbytery proposed – and the presbytery rejected, by means of a substitute motion. The commissioners are presbytery. Is this correct?
John McCrea Winter Park, Fla.
Rhee must visit Korean churches to see what PUP report’s approval has done
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
I agree with Rev. Joon W. Lee of Korean Presbyterian Church of Columbus, Ohio. Rev. Syngman Rhee is considered by most Korean Presbyterians to be a part of the “establishment” of the PCUSA and is viewed very skeptically by most. So as soon as he went public with his support of the PUP report, immediately most Korean Presbyterians were skeptical.
He does not represent Korean Presbyterians. I was an observer at the General Assembly in Alabama and was ashamed and embarrassed at how Rev. Rhee called out Rev. Sizer from Los Ranchos Presbytery in his comments during the debate over recommendation #5 of the PUP report.
If Rev. Rhee would like proof of the truth of Rev. Siver’s comments that many Korean Americans are ready to leave the PCUSA, he need only visit the many Korean churches he falsely claims to represent and see for himself what the passage of the PUP report has done. The passage of recommendation #5 has not created unity in the body of Christ, but rather disarray, mistrust and chaos.
Rev. Sung W. Chang Fresno, Calif.
False accusations against PCA
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
I must respond to Martin Thompson’s recent letter [June 28] to The Layman Online, which makes false accusations against our brothers and sisters in the PCA. Mr. Thompson makes the unfounded assertion that the PCA has no world-class scholars! His statement must be the assertion of someone who does not read much. Has he heard of the late James Montgomery Boice, Philip Graham Ryken, Lignon Duncan or John Frame? Has he heard of the late John Gerstner or his student R.C. Sproul? If Mr. Martin has not, then where has he been these last 30 years? These men that I just mentioned, living and departed, are not only world-class scholars, they are men of God and passionate writers of scholarly works that glorify Christ on every page.
Mr. Thompson also accuses the PCA of being unfair to Bishop N.T. Wright. Is it unfair to criticize fellow Christians who make false assertions that endanger the Gospel? Bishop Wright has begun a movement that is questioning the basis of our faith: that Christ saves us through grace alone. Wright would bring our works into the equation of salvation. I think that issue of sola gratia, sola fide is important enough to say some hard words of correction to a brother in the Lord!
And finally, Mr. Thompson accuses the PCA of being a group of Pharisees. What utter nonsense! They care about getting their theology right and they are uncompromising on seeking a full unity in the Truth. If they had no heart for God and they were without love, then the accusation of Pharisaical behavior might stand. But, the PCA men and women that I know are far from the Pharisees. They stand for the Reformed faith in a time of crisis and they will not be moved. Yes, that makes them plenty of enemies. I thank God for denominations that stand firm for Christ in a fallen world.
For a PCUSA person spend precious words accusing the PCA of being unfaithful strikes me as utterly wasteful of our time and unhelpful to our cause of reform in the PCUSA. Mr. Thompson should spend less time looking for the specks in PCA eyes and more time seeing the lumber yards in our PCUSA eye!
Toby L. Brown, pastor First Presbyterian Church Cuero, Texas
What it’s like being in the EPC
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
I vowed to stop writing in for the purpose of telling people what they should do. However, people are writing me and asking me what it’s like to be in the EPC. Here’s my perspective:
Although I was ordained in the Central South Presbytery of the EPC nearly 16 years ago, due to being an overseas missionary, my actual experience with the EPC is limited. I can tell you that appearing before a PCA local church missions committee for the purpose of raising support is a very different experience from appearing before an EPC missions committee. You know from the get-go what the PCA committee wants to hear. They want to hear that you put Reformed pickles on your Reformed hamburger, and as long as every third or fourth word is “Reformed,” you’re okay. In the case of an EPC church it’s different. They can be anywhere on the Evangelical map, so it’s impossible to know what buzz-words they want to hear.
One time Sandy Willson, the senior pastor of my home church, wrote letters to several EPC churches on our behalf to help us get support. We were home on furlough at the time. One day the phone rang and it was this lady who was missions chairman of an EPC megachurch in Houston. She just gushed over the phone, “Oh! We just got Sandy’s letter! Oh! You just sound so wonderful! You’ve got a doctorate and you’ve been on the mission field so long! Oh! We’re just so interested in you!” My wife was at the other end of the table playing telephone go-between and feeding me lines: “Reformed! Tell her we’re Reformed!” So I said, “Uh, we’re Reformed.” There was silence on the other end of the line for several seconds. Finally the lady came back on and said, “Well I’m a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary and I don’t hold to no Reformed theology.” We never got a dime from that Houston church. From that time on, whenever my wife and I had a disagreement, I would say to her, “Reformed. Tell her we’re Reformed.”
On the other hand, so many of the candidates that appear before my presbytery are graduates of Reformed Theological Seminary. One candidate told us he was surprised when he learned that the church that had called him was EPC instead of PCA. We laughed, and then received him. The manager of the bookshop of my home church insists that any book he carries meets his standards for being Reformed. No Prayer of Jabez or Left Behind for him.
It should also be noted that the EPC is unique among the conservative Presbyterian denominations in that it provides for women elders. For this reason, it has been excluded from the National Association of Presbyterian and Reformed Churches (NAPARC). I would think that it would be awkward to decommission women elders in order to join the PCA or OPC.
In conclusion, I would say that if you insist on being more Calvinistic than Calvin, you should probably go PCA. If you are looking for a more relaxed version, then maybe you should consider the EPC.
Rev. Dr. Larry Brown African Bible College
The witch hunt begins
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
The witch hunt for those seeking to be faithful to the Scriptures begins.
Andrew McCaskill Aiken, S.C.
No one organization has ‘the answer’ to the intolerable situation that we face
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
This letter is addressed to the sessions, individuals and leaders of the renewal groups in our denomination who signed the Statement of Presbyterian Renewal Ministries on the Peace, Unity, and Purity Report, to the sessions of the Confessing Church Movement, the leaders of the New Wineskins Movement and to the leaders of Constitutional Presbyterians.
Dear Friends,
I am an elder, a clerk of session and a member of the board of PRMI. But today, I write to you as simply one member of a local church in the PCUSA who sits in the trenches (the pews) and struggles to interpret what has happened in our denomination to the wonderful people who sit in those pews with me.
As I have read the post GA responses to the approval of the Authoritative Interpretation, I am discerning a shift in the unity that was struck in the report that you all signed when you came together in Chicago. It now seems that everyone has “the answer” and that individual meetings of many organizations have been scheduled to seek a way forward.
I would like to remind you that these are turbulent times; times that are no less turbulent than in 1774 when the first Continental Congress was assembled to address the “Intolerable Acts” that had been foisted upon the colonies by and English King and Parliament. We face just such a time today.
I appeal to you all to find that way together in the unity of Jesus Christ. No one organization or person has “the answer” to the intolerable situation that we face. Our denomination has abandoned us to secular humanism in the name of popular culture and it has put both feet on the slippery slope to destruction. The ironic thing is that it has no idea of the destruction it has wrought.
So I urge you all to begin thinking in terms of what all of us can do together. Will someone step forward not in the name of their own organization, but in the name of our Savior, Jesus Christ and call us to confession, repentance, unity and prayer? Can we together, in the humility of Christ, lay down the alphabet soup of the names of our organizations and bring together trusted leaders who can speak for the faithful remnant and who can begin to chart a course for the future? I for one would welcome that. Together we represent a rich heritage of Presbyterian polity, reformed theology and confessional thought. Together we can go forward. As individuals we will die on the vine.
Benjamin Franklin, addressing the Continental Congress, is reputed to have said. “Gentlemen we must all hang together, or surely the King will hang each of us individually.” But I like much more what our brother Paul said in Romans 15:5-7 and v.13
“May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just a Christ accepted you ….. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” Thank you all for listening.
Elder Michael J. Schrowang Londonderry Presbyterian Church, Londonderry, N.H.
The PCUSA in many respects has sunk lower than Rome
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
Bill McSpadden, III wrote [letter to the editor, posted June 28, 2006]: “You liberals glory in saying that we are Reformed and always reforming, but the trouble is that you have Reformed the church back into the corruption that the great reformers originally Reformed away from.”
Rome may have denied the gospel by denying justification by faith alone, but they have never approved the ordination of homosexuals nor have they tried renaming the Trinity. The PCUSA in many respects has sunk lower than Rome.
Geoff Robinson Haddon Heights, N.J.
Constitutional Presbyterians have fertile ground to sew seeds of unity
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
The passage of the PUP report, especially Item 5, (for legalists) will require numerous amendments to the PCUSA’s constitution. Its no wonder the stated clerk called for a FOG commission to consider simplification of the constitution. Any half-wit will now realize the potential opportunity for mischief particularly when the church is split 57 percent to 43 percent. When a decision is decided that closely, it is almost a foregone conclusion that it is an irreversible split. Thus, it is fertile ground for the Constitutional Presbyterians to sew their seeds of constitutional unity for the rest of the church.
Dawson Watkins
Don’t blame the messenger
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
I have to respectfully disagree with Rev. Norm Story’s letter on June 29.
Don’t blame the messenger. The Layman isn’t the source of the bad news, nor the rancor. Niether should it be held responsible for the mass exodus of church members.
The Layman only reports the stench coming from our church hierarchy today. It doesn’t inform us on how bad the smell is, or what to do about it. The general membership is perfectly capable of making those determinations and decisions on their own, thank-you!
David Hankins Memorial Presbyterian Church
Cartoon about the Trinity is neither accurate or amusing
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
I would like to see the cartoon about the Trinity taken off your Web site, it is neither accurate or amusing. While I, too, did not want to see the Trinity paper be accepted in any form, it does name the Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The other triads are descriptive and terms that may be used in worship or meditation.
The slap at the Episcopal Church in the midst of their struggles is also not worthy of The Layman. I am a long time staunch supporter of The Layman, but could not let this go by without comment.
Mary Van Driest
Layman has provided many positive suggestions
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
To those who complain The Layman only reports bad news and offers no positive suggestions. Rev. Norm Story [June 29 letter] was one who wrote: “I urge your editors to offer positive suggestions and not just rancor.”
Let me say this to those who complain the Layman offers no positive suggestions:
1. The Layman supported the Confessing Church Movement. Did your church join?
2. The Layman gave advice on how to be good stewards regarding per capita. Is your church still sending money to pay the salaries of denominational staff who take actions that you later complain about?
3. The Layman has given advice on church property rights. Has your church investigated what it will take to leave should that be necessary?
4. The Layman supported a petition by the CCM in support of the Federal Marriage Amendment. Did you sign the petition?
5. The Layman supported a petition to rescind the Israel Divestment Resolution. Did you sign the petition?
6. The Layman has supported the New Wineskins Initiative. Has your church joined?
7. The Layman has supported the Constitutional Presbyterians. Has your church joined?
8. The Layman was a signer of the Presbyterian Coalition Statement in opposition to PUP. Did you or your church sign the Coalition statement?
I could go on, but, suffice it to say, it seems easier for people to complain than to take action. Of the eight positive actions by the Layman listed above, the amount of time required for Presbyterians to take action is minimal. Please, folks, let’s stop complaining about someone else not taking action and instead start taking action yourself.
Larry Rued
Trinity report: ‘Where do these people get these outlandish notions?’
Posted Friday, June 30, 2006
Why do we waste time and money on such ridiculous notions? The Bible is clear about what God “wants to be called.” Jesus is clear on what term we use in addressing God in prayer. Where do these people get these outlandish notions?
Belinda Dickinson
Most Korean churches would not approve ordination of active homosexuals
Posted Thursday, June 29, 2006
This is so typical of a career politician who so shamefully flaunts his status to spin the truth. Most Korean churches are conservative and they would not approve ordination of active homosexuals. Period. The reasons why some hesitate are because of the property issue and pension. With especially the latter gone, you’ll see so many doing a disappearing act.
I am truly sorry to hear that the GA approved PUP’s majority report and allowed this travesty through the backdoor. Believers need to stand up and call things for what they are: homosexuality is sin no matter how one cuts it. We’ve studied this issue to death, and now it’s time to act. So, what next?
Rev. Peter B. Min