PCUSA Stated Clerk Opposes Order Banning Refugees’ Entry into U.S.

The wonderful thing about the contemporary PCUSA is that it exist in a post-compulsory religious world. What has ended for the PCUSA, and even the liberals will concur, is compulsory, regulatory church government. People choose to affiliate, pay attention, listen to, participate in the PCUSA out of their own free will and choosing. When the liberals smashed the last remaining aspects of constitutional policy a few years ago to gain their holy grail of LGBTQ ordination and redefine marriage as they wished, they also smashed any constitutional or polity obligation for either support or enforcement of their pronouncements or dictates. So pay your per capita, or not. Go to Presbytery meetings, or not. File your annual reports, or not. Abide by property in trust, or not. All is optional and of choice. There is no real obligation, civil or ecclesiastical to enforce otherwise.

The Stated Clerk is aware of this, as is the co-moderators. They can rant, rail, cajole, protest, tweet, blog all day long on this or that latest outrage they see from the White House, and the next four years will provide them plenty to write about. But this is the denomination and church they got, maybe not they want. But like most if not all liberals, they trash, burn down their own house and expect others to clean up their messes and pay their bills. Well, sorry not interested and not really interested in whatever Louisville has to say on just about any matter. Immigration today, maybe the Pipeline, Supreme Court tomorrow.

The PCUSA is an extension of the Democratic Party and Hollwod I have been a Pesbyterian for 47 years no more fed up and tired of these liberal clo wns calling themselves preachers.

No one has a right to enter the US unless you are citizen or have green card, after the last eight years the whole world thinks they are entitled to come in, no questions asked. Here’s a news flash, we have a new sherriff in town and his job is to protect Americans, not let in a bunch of muslim refugees all the while denying persecuted Christian entry in the US from Syria. The last administration was so anti-Christian, it wasn’t even funny.
I see the pcusa has forgotten that Obama is gone, and that political correctness against evangelicals and Christians is no longer staying at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. He’s not been out of office 2 weeks yet, and he just couldn’t help himself so he comes out by making a statement about Trump’s executive order and “American Values” at stake. The racial tension in this country can be laid at his feet, and it’s going to take alot longer than two weeks to repair.

I know people of faith, good people, on both sides of the immigration issue. It is a risk versus compassion challenge for many people, similar to helping a stranger (or even a friend) only to end up being taken advantage of. So, do we remain helpful and compassionate, or do we become callous and hard-hearted? That said, none of the terrorist attacks have been carried out by refugees. What is more, the first terrorist attack in recent history is not New York City, but Oklahoma City, and it was not carried out by people from the Middle East, but from the Mid-west.
What I would really like is for there to be world where there would be no refugees, a world of peace and harmony for all.

You are right, Bill. The PCUSA has become a leftist political organization, not unlike the democrat party and the mainstream media. The only difference between them is that the PCUSA tries to wrap its leftist ideology in religious language. The time is now long past for the remaining Christians in the PCUSA to escape that burning house, or to accept the consequences of their own acquiescence to its apostasy. Being a faithful Christian and being an adherent of the PCUSA have become mutually exclusive.

When I read the Bible, I find the call to followers of the Lord, are to show compassion and empathy. So when the church calls on us to be compassionate and welcoming, I find that it is fulfilling the teachings of Jesus. When I saw photos of a drowned three year lying on a beach, and the devastating pictures of mostly destroyed Aleppo I was stunned. I don’t care if Democrats or Hollywood things this a worthy cause. I do care if our church shows leadership in calling for responsible action. My brother welcomed into his home for over a year, a refugee from Iraq. He was an interpreter who had worked with the US Army and his life was threatened. Ten years later he is gainfully employed, married and with two children. The story of the Good Samaritan is an instruction not a fairy tale. I look of the leaders of our church to lead. For too long the church had hands off positions on issues of civil rights, slavery, and the environment. At that point the church ignored Isaiah and Micah and our Lord.

With all due respect Mr Stated Clerk these are serious times and it’s time to stop the posturing. You identify yourself as the “top ecclesial officer” of the largest “Reformed body” in the country. Ecclesial I assume is meant to distinguish you from the head of a secular organization like a political party. Our Book of Order states the “Reformed ” church is where “the Word of God is truly preached and heard” and the “Church is faithful to the mission of Christ as it …bears witness to Christ’s saving death and resurrection” . The reality is you preside over a body that ordains a Teaching Elder who from the pulpit described his sermon on January 22nd as an invitation to join a new religion in which “there are no beliefs” …”however, you can believe whatever you want”. I assume Pastor Shuck is not an outlier since despite having broadcast his beliefs through his blog, radio program and magazine articles for at least a decade he was recently called and installed as a PCUSA pastor. These are serious times. It’s time for the PCUSA to declare itself. Are we a denomination in which there are no beliefs and you can believe whatever you want? Is that what Unity in Diversity means? Are we a church that believes in the triune God–Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Are we a church that believes that the Bible is the Word of God? Are we a church that believes we are saved through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Are there any Essential Tenets of Faith in the PCUSA ?

Bill Scheiderer is 100 on target. The General Assembly’s ex cathedra pronouncements from Israel to immigration are naïve and wrong-headed. John

When I was ordained the PC(USA) and its forerunners had well over 3.0M members. Now, at 1.5M members and racing fast to go below 1.0M, the claim to be the “largest” of anything, Reformed or otherwise, is a hollow mark of authority. Leadership that has lost this much of any organization’s market share deserves only derision and occasional mocking laughter, especially when they bloviate advice to leaders who have proven themselves to be their betters.

I agree with the “top ecclesial officer” of the Presbyterian Church (USA) that President Trump erred in signing an executive order to prohibit refugees from nations wracked by Islamic terrorism, I agree with little else that he said in his post (including his contention that the PC(USA) is a “Reformed body”; the PC(USA) is not Reformed in any meaningful sense of the word, as shall shortly be demonstrated).
First, he characterizes the denial of refugees entry into the United States as “a miscarriage of justice”.  “Justice”, as defined in our Reformed tradition, is giving that which is owed to the recipient, and it comes in two forms: Remunerative Justice and Retributive Justice.
For example, if I enter into an agreement with an employer to provide work for a set amount of money, after I have completed the work, I am owed the agreed-upon amount of money.  For the employer to give the full agreed-upon amount and nothing more, it is remunerative justice.  Should the employer withhold some or all of the promised money for the work that I performed, it is an injustice; should the employer give money in excess of the agreed-upon amount, it is grace (hence, our word “gratuity” for the additional amount we pay restaurant servers above and beyond the cost the restaurant legally charges us for the food and service).
Conversely, should I embezzle funds from the employer, I have committed a civil crime and deserve the penalty specified in the legal statutes (or as determined by the judge legally appointed to hear the case in court).  Should the full penalty be leveled against me, it is retributive justice.  Should a harsher penalty be leveled, it is an injustice.  Should a more lenient penalty be leveled, it is mercy.  Should the penalty be waived altogether, it is grace. (see C. Hodge, Systematic Theology, Vol. I, pp. 416-427; L. Berkhof, Systematic Theology, pp. 75-76)
It is not justice—remunerative or retributive—that we show the foreign refugee when we allow him into our borders.  No one has a legal right to enter the United States except the citizens thereof, and it is the prerogative of the Commander-in-Chief to deny entry into the United States to any foreign national, irrespective of refugee status.  To thus deny refugees entry into the United States cannot, therefore, be characterized as “a miscarriage of justice”, anymore than it can be thus characterized for God to deny sinful human beings entry into Heaven who do not put their trust in His Son.
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Rom. 3.23) and “the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom. 6.23)
When we stand before the judgment throne of God, we will stand there without excuse.  God has this great body of evidence against us, of all the sins that we have ever committed (Ps. 130.3)—every time we have transgressed His commandments or failed to do what His commandments require (Mt. 12.36-37)—and we are, every one of us (save Christ alone), without excuse (Rom. 1.20).
When the Lord Jesus entered this world, it was not, as Rev. Nelson put it, as a refugee.  He sought no refuge in this world from His loving heavenly Father.  (When He was two years old or so, His earthly parents fled with Him to take refuge in Egypt from the wicked King Herod [Mt. 2.13-15], but it is not on this basis that we ought to have compassion on refugees.)  Rather, He came into this world to conquer sin and death by becoming an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
“Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
and by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.” (Is. 53.4-6; quoted I Pet. 2.24-25)
And this death, in which He bore our sins, results in our justification, our salvation from sin and death by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, apart from the works of the Law (Rom. 3.28, Gal. 2.16, Eph. 2.8-9).  “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.” (Eph. 2.19)  And again, “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Phil. 3.20)
But it is also written, “For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.” (Lk. 12.48)  And again, “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.” (Mt. 5.7)  In Christ, we, like Abraham, have been blessed to be a blessing to others (Gen. 12.2-3, Gal. 3.14).  “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph. 2.10)  And again, “Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” (Tit. 2.14)
Therefore, we ought not allow entry into the United States of these refugees from war-torn regions of the world because they are somehow owed it, for they are not.  Rather, we ought to allow them entry, first, because they need grace and mercy, and we have received grace and mercy in abundance in order to bless the least of these (Mt. 25.40); and second, because it is a tremendous opportunity to share with those who have never heard the Gospel of hope and salvation that come through Christ alone and through no one else (Allah and Muhammed notwithstanding), in order that they might believe on Him and be saved from sin and death.
And if those who would harm us should embed themselves among the refugees and come here to wreak havoc, terror, and destruction, then what is that to us, who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb?  Is it not written, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Mt. 10.28)?  And did not the Lord Jesus say, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Mt. 5.44)?  Are we to ban “the least of these” from entry into our land because we fear that “those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul” might be embedded among them?  If so, then shame on us for our crass unbelief in God in being afraid to do that which He is calling us to do in ministering to them!  “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.” (II Tim. 1.7)

Having lived through WWII as have many others, I never heard of any Germans being transported into the Us during the war. and I do not recall any big incflucts into UsEither. We had the Marshall plan plus Germans were busy cleaning up their country and defending it as well. I don’t know if any o Civil War or Revolution US residents were leaving during our wars, either. We stayed and defended our turf.
These wars now are continuing. The caliphate and sharia law exist. The ban is temporary for vetting criteria to be reevaluated. Yes, vetting should occur. I believe it is our role to help these people where they are. Some may still wish to leave. Many countries do not permit entry of Jews. Even for those who made it here by 1938 were restricted to the state in which they resided. My colleague could not ever leVe NJ to visit her aunt in NYC without official permission on each trip. Their travel was monitored during our conflict . We just don’t Willy nilly bring people into a nation, even in. Peace time. Conflict isn’t over. People with visas and card holders are coming in.
Many citizens are comfortable with careful planning and also having many options for the suffering who are fleeing.