Your pastor’s health plan and abortion coverage

Abortion services has been part of the UPC/PCUSA pension/medical plans for close 30 years. The optics of the policy are well know and nothing is gained in its rehash. It not the physical or chemical act of abortion, the intentional murder of other human beings that is at the core of the PCUSA medical policy. It is what abortion as a concept and idea represents to the PCUSA. Abortion as a medical option under the medical plan in the PCUSA is a symbol of liberation, human liberation from the conventions of decency and morality. It is the pagan concepts of human independence, independence of sex, sexuality, from under the dominion of God or faith. It is the pagan-feminist ethos of my body, my sex, my life. Children are seen as a commodity, to be disposed of at will, at choice, without consequences of reflection. You see the direct reflection of this in the death of the PCUSA. As children are so sacrificed in the name of ideological purity, so the denomination embraces its own culture of death in what both says and does.

Now the usual apologist of the PCUSA to the website will push back of course on matters of choice, autonomy, progress, liberation, freedom. All most popular and very power concepts. I would only retort that their biological mothers carried them to full term, and if that was indeed a choice for them, aren’t they fortunate they made it, 1 million a year of the their fellow human beings, even potential PCUSA type people never get that far. Thanks PCUSA.

abortion is the worst sin in the world, according to messages received by several modern day prophets, and the one major sin that will lead to chastisements upon the US, if it continues to be the law of the land. it’s a shame the PCUSA etc. won’t even acknowledge or research some of these messages, many of them delivered via canonized saints, Church approved, and available on the internet. like everything else i’ve watched going on lately in the PCUSA, it seems to follow the lead of government, not the other way around. one has to wonder if the Holy Spirit is present at all in some of these organizations at this point, it certainly appears to have vacated the PCUSA, a long time ago. what i’m seeing in my PCUSA friends and family, it feels like talking to a brick wall, a void of any recognition of what i’m trying to warn them about. getting rather frightening to witness, reminds me of accounts i’ve read about trying to communicate with souls who are demonically possessed. the verbal attacks on believers from my experience appear to be ramping up in public as well, acquaintances are starting to attack, unprovoked. all getting quite strange. i suggest those of us who know what’s going on start piping down before the death culture comes after us too. that’s the obvious end result of all of this, kill the messengers.

Years ago when we found found out about abortion coverage for pastors in the medical plan of the PCUSA, we asked our pastor if this could really be true. He said yes, and he apparently had no problem with it. As a life-long Presbyterian, I was astounded, shocked, and horrified. We left our church soon after that because we were not willing to fund abortions. We moved on and found peace in a conservative denomination.

Guest, I agree abortion is the worst sin. My heart grieves for the 50 million babies that have been aborted in the U.S. The fact that the PCUSA would violate the Ten Commandments by going along with abortion will be their downfall.

It is my opinion that quite a few people who attend PCUSA churches don’t actually know about pastors getting abortion coverage. I didn’t find out until 2000. It was not something our pastor spoke about.

quite a few people who attend PCUSA churches don’t actually know much of anything about their religion. i only stumbled on the truth ‘by accident’ after reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. the Catholic doctrine made perfect sense to me, every word of it. when i went to the PCUSA website to compare their tenets of the faith i too was shocked.

what i find so disturbing, and probably the main reason i keep coming back here, it’s not the adults, mostly, who are well aware of all this and go along with it that most concern me, it’s the children being raised in this environment who don’t have a prayer of figuring out the truth until possibly much later in life. i was almost 50 years old before i found out about the PCUSA tenets. for a soul who is a Bible based believer that translates into 50 years of hell on earth, in a family that largely embraced the error of their ways. it is almost the equivalent of abortion to expose a child to this false doctrine, not educate them in the truth. basically what they’re doing is dragging the children down to hell with them, to put it bluntly. if an adult wants to embrace worship of hedonism, comfort, money, that’s fine with me, they have that free will choice, it’s when they drag innocent children into this culture, fail to even inform them of the truth, allowing them to make their own decisions, then i have to speak up.

what i hope to see is some sort of doctrine, published, and made a part of the education process for new members/confirmation classes for children. i believe children should be educated, informed about the reformation and so forth, told exactly how their church came to be, separate and split off from Rome. it’s a joke what they tell new members, at least at the half dozen or so PCUSA churches where i transferred my membership over the years while i was growing up and moving around a lot. all they basically say both in writing and verbally is the same nonsense you see here, there are no rules, live and let live. and whatever you do don’t question anything, just go along with it to keep the peace. never was there any opportunity to understand big picture what’s going on and who gains from it, meaning the huge salaries and benefits of the so called sacred servants in protestant churches. not to mention the networking and political benefits of going along with the masses.

Are there any figures out there on how many abortion procedures were covered by the BoP? Is it the option, or the act that gets folks up in arms?

there was an article on this website some time ago with the statistics.

when a religion gives the green light to abortion, for any reason, it opens the door to all sorts of ‘hardship’ excuses. there really is no good excuse. life begins at the moment of conception.

far down in the pecking order, the argument typically flies off from the basic issue of murder of an unborn child to all sorts of tangential issues regarding differences between Christians willing to carry their cross and Christians, supposedly, who wish to have a pain free fun filled existence. we’re here to serve others vs. we are called to have a good time, eat drink and be merry. many have also bought into the prosperity doctrine, across all Christian religions, which some of us believe is false. sacrifice in the image of Christ vs pain free life, that’s the issue. people abort their children for all sorts of reasons, some of them supposedly good, unfortunately none of them are good for the innocent child. usually it has to do with avoiding embarrassment or financial hardship.

as i said to begin with, none of the above is relevant. abortion is murder. period. God created each soul, only God has the authority to determine how long it lives, not any man for any reason.

i happen to come from a Catholic family that was involved in a scandalous pregnancy back in the 1800s in France. one of my great-great..grandfathers was raised in a Catholic orphanage. his real parent’s identity was concealed. only now is the truth coming out. if those parents had chosen to abort this child then i probably would not be here. there are many stories like mine, most likely a lot of us would not be here if abortion had been the legalized slaughter that it is today.

Wow! Is this accurate? The new Presbyterian denomination that broke off from the PCUSA because of the redefinition of marriage allows in its own healthcare plan substances inducing abortions for teenagers?

The ECO (A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians) health plan (via CIGNA) does not cover any elective (surgical or chemical) abortion. However, the pharmaceutical PLAN DOES INCLUDE A CLASS of contraceptive drugs that includes emergency contraceptives. CIGNA offers contraceptive drugs as an inclusive ‘class’ that contains EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTIVES such as PLAN B is available over the counter without a prescription to anyone over 18, the coverage of Plan B applies only to those under 18 (minor dependents)….As it now stand, members in ECO have no guarantee that their tithes will not pay for emergency contraceptives.

Just to note. Abortion is legal in the United States. It is a recognized medical procedure. I would guess the number of abortions paid for by the plan would be less than a dozen in a year. But even if it were ten dozen, abortion remains a legal medical procedure.
If you don’t want to have one then don’t. But don’t force your theological opinions on the lives of others.

abortion is a medical procedure, and so is hysterectomy, vasectomy, and other forms of sterilization.
along with plastic surgery to enhance one’s features, to make the physical body more alluring to one’s potential partners. indecent dress in public is legal, X rated movies, other forms of pornography, smoking, drinking as much as one likes, of whatever one wants, many prescription drugs that ravage the body unnecessarily….all legal. correct. and while we’re at it, let’s throw in tax evasion, other corporate crimes that routinely go undetected and overlooked as a part of doing business in this country. i wouldn’t be surprised to see people walking the streets in see thru clothing in a few more years. i’ve already seen in NYC two people walking around there buck naked, one on the street, another on a subway. hey, while we’re at it, let’s all throw a casino party in our local church like they did at Second Presbyterian in Fort Lauderdale last week.

Slavery was legal once too.

Regardless of what the law is, Christian denominations used to follow the Ten Commandments and value the life of the unborn.

Dana Allin has addressed this issue for ECO in the past and I am sure someone at HQ can inform folks who want to understand the finer details.

One of the differences for me in ECO is while Cigna offers this, we have Essential Tenets that we are held accountable to actually uphold. Therefore, rather than approaching this topic with an air of suspicion, I can approach this with an air of Trust, prayer and if necessary forgiveness, repentance and reconciliation.

Mr. Calvin (I love these names). Though lacking horns I assume, would have us believe that the fact that abortion is a legal medical procedure in the US then all moral or rational discussion should cease and we all should just get along and move along. Smoking recreational dope is a legal option in 3 states currently, something which Calvin may have a passing knowledge of. Does not mean I want either him or a US Air pilot out of Denver taking passengers to Cleveland after a few hits on the bong, though it is a legal option to do so. Nor do I want a PCUSA clergy type who may have a had a recreational abortion or voluntary termination of a pregnancy, or supports the wanton destruction of other humans, to preach to me of all things moral, ethical, or tell others how to live their lives. That is both a moral and ethical conundrum. And yes the moral and ethical debate continues.

Metrics or numbers concerning abortion is always a moving target. The technology of the practice now is that in many way abortion as a procedure is morphing from a out patent procedure to an in-home chemical process. And that skews both demographically and ethnically. Suburban white college educated women (a core PCUSA group) now opt for the at home methods. Those who still seek the traditional planed parenthood stand alones (which are now concentrated in lower economic urban cores) skews African American/Hispanic.

I find it rich that the PCUSA who bleeds for any and all things racial-ethnic are actually part of an industry that in essence kills that which is an object of their concern and rhetoric. You cannot make this stuff up.

Fair enough in criticizing Mr. Calvin, even though I would have to say that the “it’s legal” argument is so far out there I wonder why you would bother (although, for some OTHER posters on this site, when it comes to honoring ordination vows to be subject to church governance, whether that vow is legally binding in a particular jurisdiction seems to be the thing that guides the ethics, at least when it comes to property). But making sense of the rest of the post is another matter. Frankly, the distinction between the use of the “recreational dope” (the kind that is legal in 3 states) and the use by many others of things such as recreational alcohol seems far more a question of legality than ethics, so I am definitely not getting the analogy. And the rest: what you call “chemical abortions” do not happen in the home; at least in the US mifepristone may only be administered by a certified clinician, and at least where l live house calls are a thing of the past. ECPs on the other hand are available for home use, but they are not associated with abortion (don’t need to trust me, ask the National Institutes of Health or the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists). The incongruous introduction of race and class issues…a vacuous attempt to sully the denomination in which you are ordained?

to those who poo poo the abortion discussion. ok, fine, then let’s talk specifics about morality and the PCUSA. my former pastor in a PCUSA church who shall remain nameless was divorced and remarried, had many children from both marriages, not sure who many from each, but you get the picture. i was puzzled as to how this could happen, asked him point blank why he divorced wife number one. he said she lost a considerable amount of weight, became physically unappealing to him, and i gather from our conversation he was referring to personal matters i’d rather not hear about so abruptly changed the topic of conversation away from ‘too much information’. that’s just one example. the pastor of my PCUSA church in NYC made the front page of the New York Daily News by the time he was done with his sexual exploits there. so now i hear that i’m just supposed to be a good little girl and keep my mouth shut or i’m not being loving and kind…. i wish there was someway to sue these guys, and the PCUSA, for all the pain and suffering i went thru, as i sat back and watched the church of my childhood get reduced to little more than a whore house. and now i’m being told to shut up about the abortion issue because it’s just a legal medical procedure.

When the original article was posted, the expectation from the usual crowd, the horned lady, Pres, Cliff, Vernon, Calvin, Grady, whomever was to offers some ethical and or moral/theological defense of abortion, either as a medical practice or the philosophical idea behind it, namely the concept of “privacy” as applied to women. When none could be offered, simply because none exists in the context of theology or faith, the expected response become the moronic “well its legal” to the godless pagan, ” all must be under medical supervision”. Again, I ask, on what concept or ethical ground can a denominational pension plan choose to cover or enable such a barbaric medical procedure? Response, there is no reason based upon either religious or humanistic philosophical constructs.

So, the status quo remains. The PCUSA is a church of death which has not only embraced the practice of medical/mechanical death as an acceptable opinion in the voluntary termination of other humans, but uses church provided resources to enable death, and be part of an industry of death. Get in bed or a business relationship with death providers through its pension plan.

As fas as sullying any organization by inference or fact. I believe the so-called loving and all affiriming liberals
ruling elites have been taken a hammer and wrecking ball to the organization for over 40 years now and the institution is indeed dying with very little aid or help from my minor and insignificant thoughts on the events of the day. The fact that an organization chooses institutional suicide does not imply one is bound and honored to jump off the bridge just because all others seem to be doing it.

Mr Gregory fails to comprehend the plain meaning of the first line in my post, characterizing the “it’s legal” argument as so ridiculous as to be hardly worth a response. Or perhaps more likely than a failure to comprehend, a failure to read. Based on the ongoing nature of these posts, we suspect that listening/reading is not a strength

” listening/reading is not a strength”

you’re probably right about that observation. just speaking for myself, i tend to skim both the articles and the responses here, because i don’t want to be contaminated by all the lies, secular outpourings and other trash on this website, there’s plenty of it being dished out. not to mention the fact that there’s little evidence of divine inspiration going on here. as i said a while ago, a better alternative than mainstream network news, yes, but that’s not saying much.

One of course is free to comment on my lack of racing comprehension and processing of data. I am a very easy target and consider it a badge of honor.

Again i await. I am waiting for a religious liberal or secular humanist, sorry I repeat myself, to offer a intellectually credible justification or defense of the practice of abortion as a religious prerogative or an option from a spiritual, belief perspective. The silence on the other end tells me, such an argument really does exist. Abortion as an act currently legal by secular laws, has existed in the same ethical/moral space as infanticide, euthanasia, assisted suicide, and capital punishment. State sanctioned or sponsored murder, under the guise of community standards or acceptable practices in certain regions.

The secularists and social liberals of the PCUSA can only say at best, “well its a personal choice outside of any ability to regulate or deny coverage in the Board of Pensions plan.” OK, again you align yourself with the death culture of abortion politics and apologist do not be surprised if you wake up infected by the same nihllist virus of death. As the numbers and metrics of the PCUSA do indeed show. Last one out the door, turn out the lights please.

That is fine if it works for you. Whenever someone points out that I have failed to listen or failed to read, I consider it something to be worked on rather than a “badge of honor.” But that is just my way.

Kay, you are absolutely correct that many PCUSA members do not know that the medical benefits plan that is mandatory for all installed pastors pays for abortion. Many are shocked when they learn of it and leave the denomination. Others become involved with Presbyterians Pro-Life and join us in taking a stand calling the denomination back to Christianity’s biblical and historic stand against abortion. PPL’s first reason for existing is to provide encouragement and support for those who find the PCUSA policy on abortion to be morally indefensible.

Peter, I agree with you that the root of abortion is simple rebellion against God. Just as Eve willfully ate of the apple in spite of God’s prohibition, women (and the men who coerce or comply with their decision) who abort a baby are willfully acting for their personal interests in rebellion against God’s prohibition against murder. For the Christian abortion also exhibits a total lack of trust in the promises and provision of God–the sin of unbelief. But, when a church takes a public stand condoning abortion and pays for abortions it is especially eggregious because they hold the responsibility of leadership as shepherds of the people of God.

Justin, the Board of Pensions does not release the number of abortion procedures. Each year they deposit a dollar amount into the adoption assistance fund (on behalf of Relief of Conscience churches) that is equal to the dollar amount spent on abortion claims in the previous year. In 2014 that amount was $18,254.66 meaning that amount was spent on abortions in 2013. Depending on whether those abortions were early in the pregnancy or late that could range roughly from 9-50 abortions. Morally, one abortion makes the whole church complicit in the murder of a human life that God has created in his own image and for whom Christ died. This figure was given to me last week by Andrew Browne of the Board of Pensions.

Jeff and Bev, if you wish to verify this information contact John Terech at ECO.

Calvin, obviously not everything legally allowed is morally right. Abortion, though legal, is morally wrong because it is prohibited by God. The point to be made is that the church–who claims to follow God, to believe in God, to be promoting his kingdom in the world–has no business condoning and paying for something prohibited by God. Human beings do not have permission to slay human beings. A church that refuses to honor God’s law is in a state of sinful rebellion.

There are a couple of incorrect statements on so-called “emergency contraception”, both in the post above and on its availability. I have researched the medical literature (a paper I wrote is available at http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/health-issues/emergency-contraception-not-the-best-for-adolescents). Basically, our understanding of the mode of action of Plan B is still insufficient, but the frequency with which it prevents recognized pregnancy when taken 4 or 5 days after intercourse is statistically far higher than can be explained by pre-fertilization effects. Plan B clearly interferes with the development of the corpus luteum if given prior to ovulation (after ovulation, the empty egg follicle sac normally develops into the corpus luteum which produces the progesterone needed to maintain the uterine ling during pregnancy) (Plan B is ineffective if given on the day of ovulation or later). Interference with the corpus luteum makes the lining of the uterus chemically non-receptive to implantation of the embryo. The question remaining is whether interference with the corpus luteum also makes the egg resistant to fertilization. One old poorly done paper suggests that this may be the case, but the study was not well designed. If a normal corpus luteum is necessary for fertilization, then Plan B may be effective pre-fertilization and its interference with implantation moot, but if the egg is capable of fertilization, then Plan B can result in the death of the human embryo. ACOG can say that it does not cause “abortion” only by redefining words – by defining the beginning of pregnancy as implantation and ignoring the death of embryos prior to implantation.
Plan B is now available without prescription with no limitations – any child molester or 11 year old child who has the money can buy it (and clerks have been videotaped selling it to actors pretending to be statuatory rapists, etc). That is why i personally do not call in or fax prescriptions to CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, or Wal-Mart anymore – of course my patients can take handwritten prescriptions to whatever pharmacy they choose, but when I tell them why I don’t use these pharmacies, most decide to use one of our small independent pharmacies or local chains that do not offer Plan B instead. I’m sure other big chains that we do not have here also carry it over the counter, but these are the ones in my town.
While the status of Plan B and abortion is still not completely clear (by the way, studies have shown a remarkably high incidence of “spontaneous” abortions in women who became pregnant despite using Plan B – and the studies recorded subsequent intentionally induced abortions as well, so this is not the case of women hiding abortion), there is not a question about the other methods of “emergency contraception” being abortificient – both IUDs and Ella both interfere with implantation and also result in the death of an already implanted embryo. Ella is a chemical sister of RU-486 (mifepristone), the abortion pill, and acts through the same mechanism.

Sorry, we cannot assume that a “journal article” on the webpage of a political/social organization pretending to be a real professional organization (the “American College of Pediatricians,” three orders of magnitude smaller that the American Academy of Pediatrics) was peer-reviewed in any real sense. Apparently, the ACP was begun as an anti-LGBT group, of all things, and even the founder describes it as “essentially a Judeo-Christian, traditional-values organization…” So we will stick with the conclusion of the National Institutes of Health or the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.