A Presbyterian Church (USA) presbytery is asking the 222nd General Assembly to apologize to the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and questioning (LGBTQ/Q) community because it says “there will be no chance for healing and reconciliation until the PCUSA admits its mistakes and makes a statement of apology.”
The Presbytery of New York City has submitted Overture 50 “On the admission of, and apology for, harms done to the LGBTQ/Q members of the PCUSA, family and friends.” The overture cites as sin the PCUSA’s two-hundred and twenty year position of following clear Biblical teaching and aligning itself with more than 2,000 years of Christian tradition by failing to allow practicing LGBTQ/Q people to be ordained as church officers and not permitting same-sex marriages by PCUSA ministers or in PCUSA churches.
The overture asks that the PCUSA affirm, confess and apologize for “the teachings and actions that have created marginalization of our sisters and brothers, adding to the erroneous belief that people who identify as LGBTQ/Q should be considered unworthy to serve fully or be honored as family within and without the church.”
As of Jan. 27, Presbyterian Church (USA) presbyteries have submitted 50 overtures to the Office of the General Assembly, but only 23 of those have the required concurrence of a second presbytery so that they can actually be debated by the 222nd General Assembly meeting in Portland, Ore. June 18-25, 2016.
While the apology overture does not yet have a concurrence, Hudson River Presbytery had a first reading of “A Healing Overture” at its Jan. 26 presbytery meeting. Hudson River’s overture has the same wording as the New York City overture, but the rationale has some additional language and if it is approved at the next meeting of Hudson River Presbytery then Overture 50 will be before the General Assembly.
“This overture sends a message that such harm done is confessed and repented by the Presbyterian Church USA and that all LGBTQ/Q persons are invited to be, not tolerated, but affirmed and celebrated, fully human, altogether welcomed into the full life of the church for we believe queer presence is essential for the Body of Christ to be whole,” reads the proposed overture from Hudson River.
Carmen Fowler LaBerge, president of the The Presbyterian Lay Committee, commented that, “so much for the promises of mutual forebearance and a big tent where the full range of Biblical interpretations on issues of sexual practice would remain present. This overture seeks to extract an apology from those who upheld the Biblical and Confessional standards of the Church.”
“It also seems to me that the public and comprehensive apology sought maligns every commissioner from every past General Assembly and hundreds of presbytery meeting where the fidelity and chastity standards of G-6.0106b or the one-man, one-woman marriage standard of W-4.009 were affirmed over many, many years,” said LaBerge. “One can only hope that commissioners to the 222nd GA will see that and understand what future assemblies might do to likewise castigate them.”
LaBerge concluded, “This overture makes clear that recent statements by the Moderator of the General Assembly, the Director of Theology, Worship and Education and even the Covenant Network on this subject are not supported by the advocates of this overture. In the end, passage of this overture will necessitate the expulsion of all those in the PCUSA who believe that the integrity of the Body of Christ is not dependent upon a ‘queer presence,” but solely upon the Holy Spirit. If the 222nd GA passes this overture they will be saying that the Spirit was not present in the midst of, nor discerned by, all those Presbyterians in the past who upheld fidelity, chastity and traditional marriage.”
The overture and its rationale reads:
Ovt 050
On the Admission of, and Apology for, Harms Done to the LGBTQ/Q Members of the PC(USA), Family and Friends—From the Presbytery of New York City.
The Presbytery of New York City overtures the 222nd General Assembly (2016) to affirm and witness these truths:
a. come to understand forgiveness, healing, mercy and reconciliation by God’s actions through Jesus Christ’s teachings and the Risen Christ in our midst;
b. we are reconciled to God and one another by the forgiveness of our acts of sinfulness, through the Christ who is our peace and who breaks down the walls of hostility and division;
c. further, we understand that ours is a faith and ministry of forgiveness, healing, mercy and reconciliation that requires admission of the harms we have done to one another; and
d. that the fullness of our new life in Christ calls for a unity of Spirit, a sharing of gifts, and a valuing of all parts of the Body of Christ in the spirit of true forgiveness.
And we confess that our actions have fallen short of these truths in the marginalization of our sisters and brothers who identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and Questioning (LGBTQ/Q), admitting:
e. that harms have been done to this community by the denomination’s participation in the creation of barriers to God’s call to our sisters and brothers, based on sexual identity, sexual orientation and gender identity;
f. that charges have been instigated with the intention of preventing qualified individuals called by God to serve based on sexual identity and orientation;
g. that the Constitution of the PC(USA) has been erroneously used to support these charges, resulting in the use of the denomination’s court system, in effect, being co-opted to discipline others for who they are; and
h. that the denomination has participated in or been silent about challenging the destruction of the careers of faithful servants who identified as LGBTQ/Q.
Therefore, we direct that the Presbyterian Church (USA) Affirm, Confess and Apologize:
i. admitting that it has been wrong in the way it has treated the LGBTQ/Q Community in the PC(USA);
j. apologizing for the teachings and actions that have created marginalization of our sisters and brothers, adding to the erroneous belief that people who identify as LGBTQ/Q should be considered unworthy to serve fully or be honored as family within and without the church;
k. acknowledging that during this struggle we have often treated one another in ways that did not reflect the presence of the Risen Christ in our midst; including those in opposition to one another, as well as those within their own communities;
l. stating publicly that the PC(USA), as a denomination, makes this pronouncement as an act of forgiveness, healing, mercy and reconciliation; and
m. that this admission and apology lifts up the constitutional changes that have been duly implemented to dismantle the lines that have divided us from one another and the ways in which we have been called to serve, including but not limited to Amendment 10-A; the Authoritative Interpretation on Marriage, and Amendment 14F.
Rationale
1. The admissions of harms done to one another, the petition of each other for forgiveness, and the public witness of the humility by the church as an institution is required to open our doors – as fully as our hearts and intentions have always called us to do.
The last forty years of opening those doors to our sisters and brothers who identify as LGBTQ/Q has not been our only struggle, nor has it been the only place where lives have been harmed in our efforts to change. It is, however, a place where we can bring our experience, strength and hope in an even greater response that we hope this will initiate, and in which way we encourage others to respond.
We acknowledge that there are many communities and groups who have felt the sting and harms of the church as an institution; an institution in some ways holding on to practices and teachings that separated us, rather than brought us together.
We acknowledge, too, the power and privilege that has not always been exerted in the best interests of those with no power or privilege, and we hope that this “Healing Overture” will begin broad movement to become a reconciling church in ways that “clean our slate” of harms and injustices for all the world to see.
Further, we believe that such a church is the fullest faithful representation of the Church of Jesus Christ that practices the teachings of Jesus Christ in word and deed.
We also wish to make it clear that we do not see the struggle of the LGBTQ/Q community in our church as exceptional to the struggle of others who have sought justice and welcoming in the denomination. It is where we begin, hoping that this will create an invitation and a process for others to follow, bringing forward their overtures. We hope others will summon the church to acknowledge harms that need to be spoken in their communities, so that we can be the inclusive and welcoming Kin[g]dom on God on earth, beyond anything we have yet to see. We support the efforts of others to follow this process in bringing such actions forward to their presbyteries and the General Assembly.
(NOTE: See Attachment 1 from the Presbytery of Yukon and its statement of repentance to the community of Gambell, Alaska as a precedent, upon which parts of this overture have been based.)
We believe there will be no chance for healing and reconciliation until the PC(USA) admits its mistakes and makes a statement of apology. There are many faithful sisters and brothers who have been estranged by the church because of its teachings, practices, and disciplinary actions towards minsters and others who identify as LGBTQ/Q. A statement such as the one suggested would have the affect of validating our legislative actions with our commitment to changing what has been exclusionary and wrong.
2. As one of the most constitutionally inclusive mainline denominations in the world, our witness has an impact beyond any borders we might imagine. Our voice of hope, love, joy, peace, justice and welcoming—the Good News—leads the way for global change and a beginning to the end to the violence of marginalization and discrimination around the world.
Calling the church to admit harms done and apologize to those it has wronged has an impact beyond the LGBTQ/Q community. All Gospel and Justice/Love ministry is about our relationship with each other in this world. An honest statement of apology and determination to herald the changes we have been called to make lifts up the entire denomination in a way that reaffirms who and whose we are.
3. The theme of the 222nd General Assembly is The Hope in Our Calling – Ephesians 1:18. May it be so!
The rationale from the Hudson River Overture reads:
Rationale:
1. System change comes slowly. Institutional change comes slowly. Until the harm is recognized, acknowledged and repented for, only incremental change can happen. In its constitution, PCUSA is now more open, though given the tiny fraction of installed, openly Queer Ministers, there remains a long way to go. The system continues to be one that keeps many oppressed and is oppressive. Systemic, institutional change is needed, and this overture strengthens the foundation for that.
2. The admissions of harms done to one another, the petition of each other for forgiveness, and the public witness of the humility by the church as an institution is required to open our doors – as fully as our hearts and intentions have always called us to do.
The last forty years of opening those doors to our sisters and brothers who identify as LGBTQ/Q has not been our only struggle, nor has it been the only place where lives have been harmed in our efforts to change. It is, however, a place where we can bring our experience, strength and hope in an even greater response that we hope this will initiate, and in which way we encourage others to respond.
We acknowledge that there are many communities and groups who have felt the sting and harms of the church as an institution, an institution in some ways holding on to practices and teachings that separated us, rather than brought us together.
We acknowledge, too, the power and privilege that has not always been exerted in the best interests of those with no power or privilege, and we hope that this “Healing Overture” will begin broad movement to become a reconciling church in ways that “clean our slate” of harms and injustices for all the world to see.
Further, we believe that such a church is the fullest faithful representation of the Church of Jesus Christ that practices the teachings of Jesus Christ in word and deed.
We also wish to make it clear that we do not see the struggle of the LGBTQ/Q community in our church as exceptional to the struggle of others who have sought justice and welcoming in the denomination. It is where we begin, hoping that this will create an invitation and a process for others to follow, bringing forward their overtures. We hope others will summon the church to acknowledge harms that need to be spoken in their communities, so that we can be the inclusive and welcoming Kin[g]dom on God on earth, beyond anything we have yet to see. We support the efforts of others to follow this process in bringing such actions forward to their presbyteries and the General Assembly.
(NOTE: See Attachment 1 from the Presbytery of Yukon and its statement of repentance to the community of Gambell, Alaska as a precedent, upon which parts of this overture have been based.)
We believe there will be no chance for healing and reconciliation until the PC(USA) admits its mistakes and makes a statement of apology. LGBTQ/Q people of faith have been wounded in and by churches where they are not seen as loving human beings, persons who long to receive and to give love freely, persons who seek spiritual connection, persons who yearn for family relationship, persons who ache to experience authentic community as full-bodied and gloriously vulnerable human beings, gifted and graced and created in the image of God, on purpose as they are. Rather, they have been seen as their sexuality, as a group. This overture sends a message that such harm done is confessed and repented by the Presbyterian Church USA and that all LGBTQ/Q persons are invited to be, not tolerated, but affirmed and celebrated, fully human, altogether welcomed into the full life of the church for we believe queer presence is essential for the Body of Christ to be whole.
3. There are many faithful sisters and brothers who have been estranged by the church because of its teachings, practices, and disciplinary actions towards minsters and others who identify as LGBTQ/Q. A statement such as the one suggested would have the affect of validating our legislative actions with our commitment to changing what has been exclusionary and wrong.
4. As one of the most constitutionally inclusive mainline denominations in the world, our witness has an impact beyond any borders we might imagine. Our voice of hope, love, joy, peace, justice and welcoming—the Good News—leads the way for global change and a beginning to the end to the violence of marginalization and discrimination around the world.
Calling the church to admit harms done and apologize to those it has wronged has an impact beyond the LGBTQ/Q community. All Gospel and Justice/Love ministry is about our relationship with each other in this world. An honest statement of apology and determination to herald the changes we have been called to make lifts up the entire denomination in a way that reaffirms who and whose we are.
5. The theme of the 222nd General Assembly is The Hope in Our Calling – Ephesians 1:18. May it be so!
Related article: Relevant truth telling with a queer twist — It’s time tor the body of Christ to come out
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Matthew 13:24-30
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’
29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
Just when one thinks they have seen everything…..not only is there ‘no shame’….there are no morals at all.
These are truly grievous overtures, for they “call evil good and good evil, … put darkness for light and light for darkness, … (and) put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!” (Is. 5.20)
The prophets and apostles who wrote the Scriptures “spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” (II Pet. 1.21) Thus, when they spoke out against homosexuality, declaring it to be a sin (Gen. 19.4-9, Lev. 18.22, 20.13, Dt. 23.17, Judg. 19.22-25, Rom. 1.24-27, I Cor. 6.9-11, I Tim. 1.9-10, Jude 7), they were invested with God’s authority as His spokesmen. It is God, not men, who declares that homosexuality is a sin, and that those who practice it and do not repent of it will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Moreover, the Church has the responsibility to tell others of their sins, that they might repent of them, turn to Jesus Christ in faith, and be made whole (Ps. 51.13, Dan. 12.3, Mal. 2.6, Mt. 18.15-17, Jas. 5.19-20). Indeed, the example of the Lord’s admonition to Ezekiel makes warning hardened sinners and wayward believers imperative, that He would hold us accountable for the death of the wicked if we do not give them warning to turn from their sins (Ezek. 3.16-21, 33.1-9).
Yet if we instead say that not only is homosexuality not a sin, but that it is a grievous sin to name it such, to the extent that we must repent of and apologize for doing so, how is it that we do not set ourselves against the inspired and authoritative Word of God? And if we set ourselves against the Word of God, how is it that we do not set ourselves against God Himself? The Lord has strictly warned against adding to or taking away from the Word that He has spoken (Dt. 4.2, 12.32, Prov. 30.6, Mt. 5.17-20, Rev. 22.18-19); the example of Hananiah the son of Azzur should be a cautionary tale to us (Jer. 28).
“For we know him who said, ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay.’ And again, ‘The Lord will judge his people.’ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” (Heb. 10.30-31)
I would add one thing more to this excellent post, an exhortation to believing Christians who are still in the PCUSA and are now being attacked as never before because they have chosen to stand firm in the faith:
“Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness.” (II Cor. 6:14)
So I wonder, does the current Moderator still believe there can be common ground and a revitalization of trust in what remains of this crippled shell of an institution?
What this really is a page taken from the Reparations movement arising out of black nationalism of the 1970s. Cornell West, Dyson, among others who call for the payment of reparations to those effected by slavery and jim crow. Reparations is part and linked to the act of “apology” for some perception of wrong by the supposed “suppressor”class. What is now championed by Black Lives matters crowd. It is simply now applied to matters of LGBT group identity and the cult of victimization nurtured and cared for by the PCUSA.
In essence, the “apology” appeals to aspect of white guilt felt by the cultural elites, both in academia and the institutional PCUSA. Code words employed by the PCUSA is “privileged” , or “racially biased”. Very Marxist in its orientation of class struggle, conflict and their dialectic.
It is well known and a fact that the PCUSA has sold its soul for a bag of coins to the worst elements of the secular radical left. The real surprise was how easy the transaction was.
The usual trolls can line up at this point.
No trolling from me–the actual common tater…I think your analogy and comparisons are spot on.
I meant “analysis” and comparisons 🙂
“Dialectic – you do like that word. From your usage, we might infer that is the sort of thing only “Marxists” would engage in, and I suppose that is consistent with your idea that those who do not share your opinions must be “trolls.” Am still puzzling over how a person is “effected,” in this case by the “suppressor class,” whoever that is. Although we do get it: Mr. Gregory does not apologize for anything, and certainly not slavery or Jim Crow or similar things that might create the “perception” of wrong in some misguided eyes. But a question: Can you enlighten us and name some of those individuals who are the “worst elements of the radical left” and tell us where is this “bag of coins?”
This is a prime example of the radical indoctrination the homosexuals, et cetera are shoveling into the PC(USA). It has never been their cause to simply gain recognition; it’s always been to force their agenda, confiscating the funds of the saints in the process.You must NOT disagree with their sexual immorality. If you do, you must be brought into line (i.e. name calling, belligerent hate speech, shameful preying on emotions and so on) or eliminated/run off (leaving your bank account and keys to the building, of course). They are an abomination which God will not bless.
Do they want an apology from God too? Did God get it wrong when He wrote the Bible?
Thank you, Loren, for bringing the light of pertinent Scripture to shine with such clarity on this matter! I’m always grateful for your cogent thinking and biblical perspective!
Is this not so similar to what we are seeing in this country on a nationwide basis? We see groups representing very small percentages of the population demanding things of the larger body. This would be akin to asking for reparations. It certainly reminds me of those wanting to remove statues of those who some may find offensive but are part of our history. Some have talked of removing statues of Thomas Jefferson because he was a slave owner. And it goes on and on. History is a part of all us. We cannot apologize because times have changed and certain positions are found offensive to some group even though no one living today had a single thing to do with the issues. Will it ever stop?
Just when I think the last stone has been cast, another is hurled from those who think they have no sin. A bloody pile of rocks remains where a once strong reformation bastion stood. 40+ years I served and strived within the decaying denomination and fought for Christ Jesus and the Scripture. Tears are all that’s left to dry on the face I turn to the Lord. He promised to wipe them away. It’s hard to imagine how….but, His promises are my life now. As my wife, Cathy, fails to remember yesterdays, due to Alzheimer’s, I’m rather glad the disease mutes her sorrow for the fall and loss of the portion of Christ’s Church we loved. We offer no apologies for loving fellow sinners who instead demand exemption and excuse from the Word of God and presume privilege greater than the Cross.
This overture reflects the position of those who desire to completely destroy the PCUSA and all that it and its predecessors have meant throughout the centuries i affirming faith in Jesus Christ and in establishing a biblically-based theology and moral attitude for our society. It is sad to be living in such times, and it is exciting to anticipate that God will prevail and our faith will be upheld by denying this overture.
This apology should happen….right after their apology for stealing church property and tithe money.
PCUSA is like a bad Saturday night live skit.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!????????????
Dr. Cramer – this is a profound sentence. I will use it.
We offer no apologies for loving fellow sinners who instead demand exemption and excuse from the Word of God and presume privilege greater than the Cross.
Thank-you for the encouraging word.
The LGBT lobby of the PCUSA gets its inspiration and energy from the late anarchist and overt pagan Saul Alinsky. In his “12 rules for radicals” He makes quite clear that power is only attained by the deconstruction and destabilization of the traditional institutions that stand in their way. The PCUSA LGBT lobby knew full well that their end goal, the “queering” of the denomination could only be possible by not only the destruction of the structure and checks and balances of the institution. But also by the overt and abject humiliation of its opponents.
This is what the PCUSA is now and will become. It is a nihilistic, godless entity, bent on its own institutional suicide. Which is exactly what they want.
Dear Peter; could this be precisely the judgement of God upon those who’ve abandoned/rejected His Word and Grace? If so, I’m O.K. with it.
This parable is being used to promote the false narrative that we should not up root false beliefs and unbelievers in the Denomination. The big tent philosophy that all interpretations are ok even if some are like weeds among the wheat is a problem for any who sincerely want to encourage evangelism and discipleship.
We should heed the warning…..”Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire , so it will be at the end of the age”. Matthew 13:40
The parable just before this is about the kind of soil necessary for a good crop where the “seed” can flourish. That is what leaders in the churches need to be concerned with……providing, preparing, and choosing good soil to plant God’s seed. “But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces; some a hinderedfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Matthew 13:23
The PCUSA continues to be a place where the soil cannot produce a good crop ………….and the downward spiral at every level is proof that
God may be finding other fields to plant seeds to reduce the Tares
in His grace toward His people. Amen
To assist those still struggling with what to do—what should our proper response be when our denomination has lost its moorings–stay? Or leave?
…This article by J. I. Packer, first published when he had to leave the Anglican church, may be of great value. This is something every Christian should read:
“Why I Walked—Sometimes loving a denomination requires you to fight”
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/january/6.46.html
This is not surprising, Peter, since as far back as 1970, some presbyteries were using “mission” funds to send pastors to take Alinsky training – equating church planting with community organizing in urban areas. The subsequent “congregations” were the forerunner of some now being funded through the 1001 project.
Another wrinkle in the PCUSA matrix is that many left and hard-left presbyteries combine the concepts of “mission” and “social justice” into the same committee structure. Called “mission and social witness” committees, in that one naturally implies the other. Or that Christian mission is by definition social justice methodologies and doctrine. These groups are really nothing more than clearing houses for partisan, political, other actions which cannot be separated from greater secularism and radicalization.
As people of faith flee such forced propaganda programs, they only raise per capita to unrealistic levels assuming fewer and fewer people will pay for their agendas. That PCUSA gravy train is drawing to a close.
CT requires a subscription to read the full article. Is there another source?
Thanks
I found it:
https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/articles/2003/why-i-walked/
I’ve never understood this line of reasoning, and I’m hoping Mr. Gregory can answer (given he’s one of the few folks who regularly comment here who can be relied on to comment with some level of civility …)
You argue that liberals want to destroy the denomination, that this is an intentional “agenda”, not merely an unforeseen side effect of their policies. Let’s imagine for a moment that’s actually true. What’s the point? That is, how do these people maintain power over an organization that they are intentionally attempting to eliminate?
To put it differently, if I wanted to be elected moderator of the PCUSA in order to carry out my dastardly agenda, what does it serve me to destroy the PCUSA?
Also, writers and commenters at the Layman believe in a narrative that a large number of people are leaving, that theology (alone, apparently) is the cause of what they characterize as monumental membership losses, etc. In other words, the denomination is careening over a cliff.
Yet, liberals need money for their nepharious plans. After all, Bond-villian superlasers aren’t cheap. So why would they propose an overture like this one, which won’t make them a single dime, if what they really need is money in order to achieve their goals of destroying the denomination?
If, as you believe, liberals are determined to intentionally destroy the PCUSA, and if, as you believe, it is falling off a cliff, why do they bother? That is, why do they expend any energy on this action, or any other, when they’ve already destroyed the denomination and anyone who could have rescued it has either left or died? Why not just stand back and watch it burn?
I suppose you could claim that they’re simply so incompetent, that they don’t know their intricate evil plan to take over the denomination has worked so well, but then, that would make it difficult to explain how these incompetents were able to take over the denomination so easily, wouldn’t it? And if they are that incompetent, just what does that make the people on the other side who seem to lose at every turn?
Nothing about your narrative makes any rational sense or appears to be in any way coherent or consistent to me, so I’m hoping you’d be willing to clarify.
(Sorry about the Bond-villian stuff, but really, the over-the-top melodrama in some of these comments inspired that rather amusing image, and I’m taking a chance that at least one person commenting here has a sense of humor.)
A sincere question from one standing outside the PCUSA. I am truly baffled by this. What possible rationale can there be for remaining in such an institution? If the PCUSA is not currently apostate, what else would they need to do in order to be considered so?
“You argue that liberals want to destroy the denomination, that this is an intentional “agenda”, not merely an unforeseen side effect of their policies. Let’s imagine for a moment that’s actually true. What’s the point? That is, how do these people maintain power over an organization that they are intentionally attempting to eliminate?”
Acknowledging, I am not Tom, I will however offer my response to this query.
As you state the supposition: “liberals want to destroy the denomination.”
Then you ponder: “What’s the point? That is, how do these people maintain power over an organization that they are intentionally attempting to eliminate?”
If the goal is to destroy, the power they gain in the organization is only a means to fulfill the destruction. There would be no intent to retain power simply to have “power.” The goal, as stated, is to destroy the institution.
This tactic is very common. You used the illustration of a Bond Villain. Any villain would suffice. It is the object of the aggressor to gain access to the top levels of power of the target. Spies do this. The goal is not for the spy to retain the position of power perpetually, but to use that position to further the destruction of the very organization that hosts the position of power. Run the enemies out of the house. Once the house is vacant, burn it to the ground. Then dance on the ashes and celebrate its destruction. ISIL does this through use of force. It overtakes a Christian church, burns it to the ground, and celebrates by killing any it captured. This liberal movement would not use guns, but would use petitions. Rendering the denomination smaller and smaller until it ceases to operate. Then it celebrates the destruction of the institution it so abhorred.
I’m impressed with the Christians today who are smarter and more virtuous than all the billions of Christians of the previous two millennia.
That’s an interesting hypothesis.
Can you provide 4 or 5 specific examples of situations in which liberals have done what you suggest they do: taken over organizations specifically to destroy them and then walk away once they’ve been destroyed?
Beautifully stated, sir. May God continue to richly bless you.
i encourage all of you both supporters and detractors to read what GOD has to say about this subject. For a start try:
Romans 1:27
1 Timothy 1:10-11
2 Samuel 1:26
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.
If PCUSA leadership chooses to approve this confession and go against GOD’s word then I am through with PCUSA and will encourage My Presbytery and Church to disassociate themselves from PCUSA. I stand with GOD and THE WORD.