New EPC members must not bring old broken passions into the new relationship
Posted Friday, June 25, 2010
I read the article on the New Wineskins Presbytery meeting with interest and greatly admire those who have summoned the courage to break away from the Presbyterian Church (USA). This is no small step and most members have found an excuse not to do so.
My family, after 50+ years as members of the PCUSA, fled to a nearby EPC church. It has been a great blessing but it has not been without its difficulties. It is like a divorce and because a lot of hurt and anger made the trip with us it has been helpful just to worship, listen and learn rather than leap into decision making roles.
There are a lot of little battles that brought the PCUSA to its present apostasy and we ex-members carry the effects of that process. The battle over ordination was just one. And almost always the battles were less about a legitimate Scriptural issue and more about personal ambition and the human need to prevail. We asked “What would Jesus do” and time after time decided that He would do exactly what we wanted done. After a time we just did what we wanted to do. Now in the PCUSA neither Jesus nor Scripture is a major part of the political process.
The EPC will be greatly enriched by the new members from the PCUSA. But it is important that we new members, like a divorced couple, not bring our old broken passions into the new relationship. John Cowan Cartersville, Ga.
PCUSA is a political action committee for liberal and progressive causes
Posted Friday, June 25, 2010
This isn’t a denomination anymore; it is a political action committee for liberal and progressive causes. Time to shake the dust from our feet! Leave the building to the PCUSA! The Body of Christ is not a structure built by men! God will provide. Let the presbytery and the denomination sort it out. Maybe they can sell the building to a Native American gambling establishment. That will have the added benefit of allowing the presbytery’s liberals to assuage their liberal consciences of assumed transgressions against Indians. They’ll feel better about themselves and the congregation will be shed of the PCUSA – for good – their good and that of the Body of Christ.
The soon to be held General Assembly will be decisive. Watch and be ready to move decisively. Earl Tilford First Presbyterian Church, Tuscaloosa, Ala.
Letter was about civility, inclusivity within the PCUSA toward all Presbyterians
Posted Friday, June 25, 2010
I have several responses to Jodie Gallo’s letter, published June 23, 2010.
First, when I learned that the Rev. Lauterer was standing for moderator, I wrote to her, telling her that I was going to be bringing up this incident again in light of her call for civility. She elected not to respond. The one-sidedness of this issue is therefore her responsibility, not mine.
Second, my letter is not an attack on Lauterer’s candidacy per se, but rather a response to her emphasis on civility within that candidacy. The incident I wrote about happened two years ago, and I published the description of it at that time. It was not newly published by me this year as a “poison pen letter” against the moderatorial campaign. I am simply astonished that the least civil person I met at the 2008 General Assembly would then stand for moderator and stress civility. I feel that she needs to clarify her position in regard to all Presbyterians, whether she agrees with them or not.
Third, my letter was not about civility, tolerance and inclusivity toward the Institute on Religion & Democracy, as Mr. Gallo states, but rather civility, tolerance and inclusivity within the PCUSA toward all Presbyterians.
Fourth, it is true that Jesus was forthright with the Pharisees and did not mince words with them. But contrary to what Mr. Gallo says, Jesus did not exclude them. This can be seen in such passages as Mark 7 and Luke 5, where Pharisees come to listen to and interact with Jesus, without exclusion by Jesus, and Luke 7, where Jesus actually goes to dine with a Pharisee. And unlike the Rev. Lauterer, Jesus does not shout them down in anger while speaking untruth (“You are not a Presbyterian.”)
Mr. Gallo obviously shares the Rev. Lauterer’s opinions, but like her, he has gone beyond difference of opinion into personal insinuation, for example, in Mr. Gallo’s case, about possible lying. There is no place for that in Christian debate. There is also no place in civil debate for condescending use of an opponent’s first name. I will hope for better on each count from Mr. Gallo in the future. Deborah Milam Berkley Bethel Presbyterian Church, Seattle
Both authenticity and hypocrisy exist everywhere
Posted Friday, June 25, 2010
Larry Brown says he is not a liberal because of their hypocrisy [letter posted June 23, 2010]. I have known liberals who were hypocrites, and I have known liberals who were authentic, sincere, dedicated, humble people. I have also known conservatives who were hypocrites, as well as ones who were authentic, sincere, dedicated, humble people. Among conservatives, where does he place people like Roy Ashburn, Mark Souder, Mark Sanford, George Rekers and Ted Haggard? What about Jimmy Swaggart or Aimie Semple McPherson?
I know a former PCUSA minister who caught in misconduct, renounced the jurisdiction and joined the EPC. I know another former PCUSA minister, a proponent of “fidelity and chastity,” who at the time he was speaking in favor of that amendment was living with a woman he was not married to. He also renounced the jurisdiction and is now a Baptist.
On the other side, I studied at Louisville Seminary under the liberal Dr. George Edwards, who recently passed away. Dr. Edwards was an honest, dedicated, humble man. He was a solid pacifist, and death penalty opponent who not only talked the talk, he also walked the walk. I agreed with him on some things and disagreed on others, but in all things I respected him for his authenticity.
I also had the privilege of being in the last preaching class taught by Dr. George Buttrick, and have taken continuing education classes taught by his son, Dr. David Buttrick. Both of these liberal homiletical giants taught me more about solid expository preaching than any more conservative scholar, and yes, I have attended seminars taught by conservatives.
My experience has taught me that both authenticity and hypocrisy exist everywhere and probably to some degree in every person. To state that liberals are all hypocrites and conservatives are somehow not guilty of any hypocrisy is a diluted vision of reality. I believe Mr. Brown needs to be “called out” for such a sweeping generalization.
There are authentic people of every theological and political persuasion, and there are also phonies everywhere. John Pehrson, Sioux City, Iowa
Why I am not a liberal
Posted Wednesday, June 23, 2010
On July 3, your PCUSA General Assembly shall convene. No doubt, as in the past, it shall be dominated by the liberals. As I started to think about writing this, it turned into an essay, “Why I Am Not a Liberal.” I ask, if the liberals have such a bleeding heart for the poor, why don’t more of them live in the kind of neighborhood in which you wake up in the morning, and your rusty Ford Focus has been broken into, and the radio has been ripped out? It is easy to condescendingly pontificate from a perch of affluence.
I remember my mother stopped going to the local Presbyterian church when I was 9 years old. The minister would preach stirring sermons about concern for the poor of the world. Mom dropped out, not because she disagreed with anything the minister said, but because as an elementary school teacher supporting a family of four, she was unable to afford the kind of clothes the other ladies wore. I shall never forget the irony of fiery sermons about compassion for the world’s underprivileged while a lady down the street left the church because she felt uncomfortable about not being in a high enough income bracket.
Another reason I am not a liberal is their hypocrisy. They castigate the United States for a perceived preference for Israel over the Palestinians. But while they readily criticize Big Business (which, actually, it deserves), I cannot for the life of me remember when they said anything about corrupt black mayors of major U.S. cities. They had much to say about segregation in Mississippi and apartheid in South Africa, which were the last vestiges of white domination, yet remain strangely silent about more recent non-white, non-Western regimes that have turned their police and military against their own civilian populations. As a long-term missionary, I remember the early years in which I found myself living in a one-party state, a setting in which people could just disappear.
Apparently an atrocity is only an atrocity if committed by a white male. Perhaps their motto should be:
“If the dictator is black, we shall give him no flak.”
Finally, I notice that the PCUSA home office has not released current membership figures; they usually do by now. The news must be really bad. I remember a short time ago, I proposed a contest: “Give Three Reasons for Joining the PCUSA.” (May 21, 2010) I now propose another one: “Guess the Current Membership of the PCUSA.” Remember stores offering a prize if you were the one who came closest to guessing the number of jelly beans in the jar? It would be kind of like that. My guess?
2,077,853
So come on, email YOUR guess – how many jelly beans (people) are left in the jar! Larry Brown African Bible College
Vital Signs gets to the heart of the matter
Posted Wednesday, June 23, 2010
This excerpt (from David Swanson’s “Vital Signs” ):
“On worship: you know Christian worship by the fact that outsiders come and sense the presence of God. On truth: truth is a non-negotiable. If a church becomes so relevant it gets swallowed up by the values of the surrounding culture, you know that somehow the truth is no longer there.”
… gets to the heart of the matter.
We know about truth, and have been fighting that particular battle for many years. Perhaps we’ve paid far less attention to the nature of worship.
That one sentence differentiates between true worship and mere “Sunday morning entertainment.” I suspect the latter is what we see in most churches all the time, while the former may exist within individual hearts, and likely does, the common ‘corporate’ worship or should I say ‘orchestrated’ worship, to my mind, is far more show than the combination of humility and joy of which I should think true worship would consist.
I ordered the book! Paul Hubert
Lauterer has my vote
Posted Wednesday, June 23, 2010
Re: Berkley letter published June 16, 2010
Deborah Berkley’s poison pen letter openly attacking the Rev. Lauterer for her supposed “lack of civility, tolerance and inclusivity” towards the IRD back in 2008 is sad. Such venom, it seems, has become the staple of The Layman.
However, regardless of Deborah’s issues and one sided story, we must still thank her for betraying what is in fact a strength of Rev Lauterer’s. Jesus displayed an unshakable love for the marginalized and outcasts of society, and calls us to do the same. But he too is not particularly civil towards or inclusive of the Scribes and Pharisees. He has no patience for those self proclaimed defenders of the faith who, like Saul of Tarsus, oppress the rest of society with their own narrow legalistic interpretations of Scripture. They may claim to merely “lead the fight rallying Christians to champion biblical, historic Christianity and its role in democratic society, and to defeat revisionist challenges,” but over and again Jesus reminds them it is they who will find themselves not included in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Alas, a warning that falls on deaf ears.
If there is any truth to Deborah’s story, the Rev. Lauterer has my vote. Jodie Gallo Los Angeles, Calif.
Few churches are worthy of attending
Posted Monday, June 21, 2010
My wife and I, admittedly both ‘loners’, left Fair Oaks Presbyterian Church in Fair Oaks, Calif., because of its then continued membership in the PCUSA, a denomination we deem apostate along with the Episcopalians, United Methodists, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, to name three of likely many.
You carried an article from a South Carolina paper regarding those leaving the churches while continuing to consider themselves Christian. Somehow that wording troubled me.
We know the Roman Catholic Church sees salvation in light of their “sacraments” deeming them to have efficacy toward salvation. But it was my understanding that, with at least the partial exception of the Lutherans, Protestants have never held doctrine that credited any but Christ as the only source of our redemption.
A friend locally with his own local street and worldwide literature ministry, the Jesus People Information Center, has concluded that very few churches are worth attending any longer. That few fully lift up Christ in their own communities, and I would have to agree.
Which ones train and strongly encourage their members in personal evangelism? Which ones remind members they are members of the “royal priesthood’ Peter wrote of?
Since my recent retirement, I’ve become involved in 40 Days for Life and Lutherans for Life (being Lutheran isn’t a requirement). I find I can do more OUT of a church than IN its bureaucratic structures. How much of any church now truly belongs to our Lord and Savior? Paul Hubert
Civil unions belong to the government
Posted Monday, June 21, 2010
How can a church/pastor perform a “civil” union which looks like a marriage? That’s pure dissembling. Civil unions belong to the local government clerks if the locality recognizes them. We know what marriage by God means – a man and a woman. Why can’t the liberals (who deny Scripture) just leave us be – take their ideas to the secular community where they belong. What? They can’t always win there? Tells you something! Fred Edwards
Presbytery has a pattern of closing ministries for profit
Posted Friday, June 18, 2010
I read your article on the Presbytery of Albany’s actions against the Jermain Church in Watervliet with great interest. The trend of closing ministries for profit seems to be a pattern within this presbytery. At their meeting last week, many of the same people behind the “assault” on Jermain spearheaded a closure of the presbytery’s 420-acre summer camp. When the board directors of the camp – a group of volunteer laypeople and clergy – suggested selling part of the property as a conservation easement in the name of good stewardship, Cass Shaw and her allies discouraged it because it wouldn’t make enough money. The leadership at Albany Presbytery very much has a condescending “we know best” attitude. It is very much their way or the highway. Jeff Frank Mayfield Presbyterian Church
A ‘pat-on-the-back’
Posted Friday, June 18, 2010
I felt moved to send you a pat-on-the-back, shake your hand, and let you know you are not standing alone. Your words speak the truth so clearly, I pray God will give you the strength to carry on! Well done faithful servant! Carolyn J. Brinsley Port Orange, Fla.
The PCUSA’s big tent is shrinking
Posted Friday, June 18, 2010
While the PCUSA may call itself a “big tent,” one thing is clear. That big tent is ever-shrinking.
I have been watching for the population statistics for this big tent. With so many large congregations leaving, the loss of population during 2009 must be huge, but apparently it is being kept secret. For whatever reason, the numbers have not appeared. Perhaps there are just not enough people left in Louisville to make the calculations!
While we should always hope for Aslan to appear, I think it is more likely that Aslan gave up hope for the denomination and has left the building, never to appear again. George Hill Port Allen, La.
The delusion masquerading as a denomination
Posted Friday, June 18, 2010
Well said, an excellent portrayal of the delusion masquerading as a denomination. I imagine if you lift the corner of the tent you’ll find Satan’s mignons scurrying around pulling strings. Richard Conway First Presbyterian, Morganton, N.C.
Does Lauterer accept all Presbyterians as real Presbyterians?
Posted Wednesday, June 16, 2010
I am writing about the Rev. Maggie Lauterer, who is standing for moderator of the PCUSA. In particular, I am interested in her assertion that civility is one of her top five issues. At the General Assembly in San Jose in 2008, I had an encounter with the Rev. Lauterer that seems to me to call into question not only her tolerance of others and her ability to be inclusive of all Presbyterians, but her actual ability to use civility in dealing with Presbyterians with whom she differs. It seems appropriate for her to answer questions about her civility, her tolerance and her inclusivity of others, in order to show if she has become more civil and more inclusive in the last two years.
In 2008, I wrote about our encounter here and here (the accounts are identical), but I will repeat it now. In the 2008 GA Exhibition Hall, the Rev. Lauterer walked by the booth of Presbyterian Action, where I was volunteering. Presbyterian Action is a subsidiary of the Institute on Religion and Democracy. The Rev. Lauterer stopped, came back and declared to me that Presbyterian Action had no right to be at GA.
I replied that we were Presbyterians, but she insisted that we were not. When I then said that I had been a Presbyterian for 34 years, she still said that I was not a Presbyterian. Then she started telling me all the evil things that she believed that the IRD had done (which, by the way, were myths), and I tried to reply to them, explaining how they were not true. However, her voice became more and more raised, until her loud accusations dominated all the conversations in nearby booths. At that point I realized the conversation was fruitless, and I stopped responding, merely replying that I would pray for her. She said the same and walked angrily away. People in the surrounding booths were stunned by her attack.
Although I did initiate a later conversation with the Rev. Lauterer, in which we both attempted to reconcile as individuals, it was never clear to me that she in general accepted people working for Presbyterian Action, such as my husband, who was employed by them at the time, as actual Presbyterians. Yet my husband had been a Presbyterian pastor since 1975.
Thus it surprises me that the Rev. Lauterer is interested in being Moderator of the PCUSA. Since she exhibited a lack of civility, tolerance and inclusivity in 2008, it would behoove her to show that she now clearly accepts all Presbyterians as real Presbyterians, and that she is able to warmly accommodate opposing viewpoints and be civil to those who hold them.
I challenge the Rev. Lauterer to make clear what she intends her practice to be, so that those voting in the Moderator election will know where she stands on tolerance and inclusivity, and so that others will not be subjected to her incivility and outspoken prejudice at this upcoming GA. Deborah Milam Berkley Bethel Presbyterian Church, Seattle, Wash.
No respect for Middle East Study Committee
Posted Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Regarding Mr. Will Spotts’ recent open letter [Posted June 7, 2010], I wish to express my sentiments regarding The Middle East Study Committee and its recommendations. When I see a proposal as such “The action items that you must consider are weighted in one direction,” against Israel, I personally lose all respect for that committee and cannot find any reason to give any credence to any ideas or recommendations they have to offer. Richard Conway First, Morganton, N.C.