Many in PCUSA are not getting the full story on the Mid East conflict
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
I have been heartbroken by the anti-Israel position taken by the Presbyterian Church. I hope that you made sure to get facts from the Israeli side, as well as the Palestinian side. It is clear that many in the Presbyterian Church are not getting the full story on the Mideast conflict.
I am a Jewish Arab refugee who was forced to leave my home in Iraq in 1951. I was lucky that Israel welcomed me and 800,000 other Jews and allowed us to assimilate and create new lives for ourselves. In contrast, the Arabs that left their homes in Palestine (at the word of the surrounding Arab states whose plan was to rid the area of Jews), lost their homes because they chose to leave. Those Arabs who chose to stay became Israeli citizens, and experience a very high standard of living compared to most Arab citizens of all other countries.
The other Arab countries should have absorbed the refugees, and allowed them to attain citizenship in the various countries. Instead, the Arabs committed a crime against their brothers, by forcing these Arabs to remain in refugee camps. Please talk to Bridgette Gabriel, a fellow Christian from Lebanon. She will tell you of the horrors her family (and the Lebanese Christians) suffered at the hands of the Lebanese. She grew up thinking that Israel was the devil, and learned instead that Israelis were the most compassionate and caring people around.
Tamara Fiche, Ph.D. West Orange, N.J.
PCUSA leadership believes in another gospel
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
Why should New Hanover Presbyterian Church located in Mechanicsville, Va., chastise the PCUSA?
PCUSA leadership overall rejects the Holy Bible as the Word of God, and if the leadership of the PCUSA believed in the same, abortion, homosexuality, gay ordination would not be an issue along with other issues from the pit of hell.
The PCUSA leadership believes in another gospel, as Paul instructs in Galatians 1. Either New Hanover Presbyterian Church fights to preserve the truth in the Holy Bible, or make preparations to leave; otherwise, nothing will change in PCUSA leadership.
Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del.
Churches should speak for themselves
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
Right on River Road. It is my fervent prayer that all sessions and particularly those that are Confessing Churches would follow suit. It would be one way in which the churches could speak for themselves rather that the GA assuming that it speaks for all churches within the denomination, which is missing the boat big time on most everything.
Jack Fox, elder First Presbyterian Church , Towanda, Pa.
Session agrees with ‘fidelity-chastity’
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
New Hanover agrees with the current policy on ordination.
Richard and Stacy McGrath
Does ‘no harm, no foul’ trump Reformed theological foundations?
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
Joan Runyeon’s statement, regarding the “marriage” of two gay men by Janie Spahr, “If it’s proved that Janie did this wedding, it would be hard to believe anyone was hurt by it. …” implies the old “no harm, no foul” view of what constitutes right or wrong. Is this what Presbyterians consider foundational for truth and righteousness? What happened to Reformed theological foundations? In all honesty, we should note that Ms. Runyeon went on to note that “…. it is against our constitution.” But does the final statement mask her position as found in the first?
Rev. Steven L. Seng First Presbyterian Church , Wellsburg, W.Va.
PCUSA is speaking prophetically about social and economic injustice
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
Thank you for reporting on the “Stony Point Declaration” which assailed the United States for pursuing a “global empire, backed by unprecedented military supremacy” and for declaring the U.S.’s commitment to a “capitalistic economic system (that) has enriched the corporate ruling class at the expense of the earth and the poor.” But for The Layman, I would not have known that such a declaration had been issued.
All I can say is, Praise the Lord! Finally, the PCUSA is speaking prophetically to the “powers and principalities” about social and economic injustice. That declaration is very much in line with the prophetic words of Jesus and the Old Testament prophets. O that the local churches would take that message to heart. It is reminiscent of the great American prophet, Reinhold Niebuhr, who declared:
“There is no social evil, no form of injustice… which has not been sanctioned in some way or other by religious sentiment and thereby rendered impervious to change … The final sin is always committed in the name of religion. A part of the Church, fearing involvement in the ambiguities of politics, has declared the problems of politics to be irrelevant to the Christian life. Usually this neutrality has not even been honestly neutral. the neutral Church is usually an ally of the established social forces.”
Lee H. Lybarger, elder First Presbyterian Church, Delaware, Ohio
Caterpillar also used as an example in PNS stories
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
The Rev. Bart Roush in his recent letter stated: “I implore The Layman Online to consider changing its language and adding more specific information to prevent further misunderstanding and to avoid the appearance of misleading its readers and using inflammatory language.”
Perhaps his letter would have been better directed to Louisville. Starting with a complaint to Alexa Smith regarding her quite one-sided story on Rachel Corrie’s encounter with Caterpillar: PCUSA News Release Number — 04463 — Corries push US government …
Here are links to other news reports from Louisville that included Caterpillar in the story:
PCUSA News Release Number — 04455 — Jewish peace group …
PCUSA News Release Number 04342 — Nuns squeeze Caterpillar
PCUSA News Release No. 04341 — Taking stock of taking stock
PCUSA 216th General Assembly (2004) — News — Assembly endorses …
PCUSA News Release Number — 04436 — High-level Presbyterians and …
PCUSA News Release Number — 04444 — Talk of the town
PCUSA News Service Archives for 2004 — October
PCUSA 216th General Assembly (2004) — News — ‘Tear down this …
PCUSA News Service Archives for 2004 — August
PCUSA News Release Number 03431 — Mine field
PCUSA Washington Office — Middle East — War on Terror
Larry Rued, elder First Presbyterian Church, Bradenton, Fla.
Session commended for stating concerns using Biblical grounds
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
On the whole, I would commend the New Hanover session for stating their concerns on Biblical grounds with one glaring exception. That glaring exception is their “shock” at the 216th General Assembly’s statement on the War in Iraq. I see no Biblical quotations to support their “shock.” Perhaps that is because there aren’t any.
Neil D. Cowling, pastor Kirk of Our Savior, Presbyterian Church (USA), Westland, Mich.
The Grinch movie is not authoritative for the teachings of Christ
Posted Monday, November 29, 2004
Have we as Christians become so foolish as to believe we can survive as followers of Jesus Christ by occupying the battleground between the opposing forces in a religious war? Are we so certain of our position of power that dalliances with the entanglements of the above topics will not bring ruin upon our heads? Turn to Ephesians. Read carefully. Do not accept the most recent version of The Grinch Who Stole Christmas, as authoritative for the teachings of Christ. I claim to be a follower of Christ. I am not a follower of Artemis/Diana. The glorious themes of the Bible are life within the paradigm of the Judeo/Christian heritage. Listen up, you who would join the world of Whoville.
In another matter, the action of ACSWP should have never taken place. Censure and nullification of this action is now absolutely necessary.
Dale C. Fenner John Knox Presbyterian Church, Indianapolis, Ind.
Friend of the court, but enemy of Scripture
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
It occurs to me that no matter how many scholars, pastors, activists or scientists might agree on a more progressive, inclusive, “loving” definition, marriage by definition is one man and one woman in commitment/covenant before God and man – just as one plus one will always equal two, because that’s what it is. There is simply no wiggle room. As someone said, “a rose by any other name is still a rose.”
Unfortunately, we will be maligned as “narrow-minded” for this view. One main problem of the other view is that there is no appreciation for the richness of God’s intention in that very narrow definition.
A simple example of God’s richness can be found in the very limited set of letters in the English alphabet. “Only” twenty-six! “How limiting!” “How narrow-minded!” But, now think of the vast array of words that can be formed from those 26 ink blots. Then, from those words, think of the unimaginable array of ideas and expressions. All from 26 letters!
Dan McConnell
NCC does not speak for majority of Christians
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
Heidinger is right. The National Council of Churches does not speak for the majority of Christians. The majority of Christians are warmongers. They will start their wars so they can pray for peace. What hypocrites!
Dan Sweeton Lebanon, Tenn.
Title is misleading, since no money is made until stock is sold
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
The title “Stock has earned PCUSA $500,000 since GA mandate” is a somewhat misleading statement, and I know that The Layman stands for truth. The Caterpillar stock has gone up in value and has increased the dollar amount in the PCUSA portfolios by $500,000, but has not actually earned the PCUSA a cent.
No money has actually been made or lost until the stock is sold (unless a dividend has been paid out, but that amount would be negligible). The $500,000 is an unrealized gain or profit.
Note, just because the Caterpillar stock has risen in value by over 17 percent in five months does not necessarily mean that it is should be held onto. It may be good timing for it to be sold regardless of whom they do or don’t do business with if the stock becomes overvalued, etc.
Keeping a stock to show support of Israel does not sound like fiscally responsible investing just as divesting to make a statement against Israel does not sound like fiscally responsible investing.
Rev. Tom Unkenholz Harrison Presbyterian Church , (a Confessing Church) , Harrison, N.Y.
Baltimore will not comply with PCUSA’s confessional/constitutional stance
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
Sooner or later, someone has to speak up and act in the face of defiance and apostasy on the part of presbyteries and sessions.
Baltimore has, both de facto and de jure, declared that it will not comply with the confessional and constitutional stance of this denomination. I see that as being the equivalent of renouncing the jurisdiction of the denomination.
That being the case, shouldn’t the synod responsible already be acting to bring them into compliance? At the very least, the staff, council and commissions of that presbytery should be dismissed and an administrative commission empanelled to effect restoration.
Have we completely forgotten our responsibilities to discipline the church in our rush to be culturally conformed? I am disgusted. Shame on them all.
Rev. Jim Yearsley Pittsburgh, Pa.
Be very clear and specific when discussing divestment issue
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
Under the heading “Caterpillar Watch,” the Layman Online states that, “the General Assembly voted overwhelmingly in July to divest of funds in multinational corporations that do business with Israel.”
Given the explosiveness and high emotions surrounding this particular issue, I think it imperative that we as Presbyterians be very clear and specific when we report on this topic, no matter where our conscience rests. There has been much misinformation and overstatement of fact reported in a variety of media on this issue.
While the General Assembly did vote in an overwhelming majority, the vote allowed only for “phased selective divestment” given a set of criteria recently created by the committee of the PCUSA that is responsible for socially responsible investing. To state that the “General Assembly voted to divest of funds in multinational corporation that do business with Israel” gives the impression that any company doing business in Israel may be subject to divestment. Additionally, no mention is given that no actual divestment may occur any earlier than June 2006, and then only after a series of actions with identified companies, including filing shareholder resolutions so that shareholders may discuss these issues publicly. Lastly, no specific corporations have been named as of yet; this is expected in the Spring of 2005. To title the section “Caterpillar Watch” is presumptuous, although I admit Caterpillar is likely to be a company named. I believe discretion and accuracy is the prudent course. It is exactly these types of overstatements and lack of specificity that has led many to misunderstand exactly what action the General Assembly took and what further action the Presbyterian Church will take concerning this contentious issue.
I implore The Layman Online to consider changing its language and adding more specific information to prevent further misunderstanding and to avoid the appearance of misleading its readers and using inflammatory language. In such times as these I think this is the very least we can do as faithful people.
Rev. Bart Roush Fox Valley Presbyterian Church, Geneva, Ill.
Hundreds of Presbyterians support special G.A. session
Posted Wednesday, November 24, 2004
On yesterday’s The Layman Online, Douglas Anderson [letter to the editor, November 23, 2004] rhetorically asks “When will membership take their church back?”
My opinion is the membership has felt so disenfranchised for such a long time that they do not know where or how to begin.
Let me offer, one more time, a way for the membership to begin re-enfranchising itself.
There is an online petition calling for the G.A. to come back to special session to rescind the Israel Divestment Resolution. As of today, 301 Presbyterian members, elders and ministers have enfranchised themselves by signing the petition.
Some have expressed a concern about the estimated $250,000 to hold a special G.A. session. While the cost of a special G.A session may seem high, it pales in comparison to the cost of Presbyterians leaving this denomination. In 2003, more than 46,000 people exited the PCUSA. Assuming the 46,000 made the average church contribution of just over $900 per annum, their departure represents a $41 million charge to the mission of this denomination.
Let me close with rhetorical questions. Would Fred Edwards (see his letter of Nov 23) have remained a PCUSA member if he knew that thousands of members, elders and ministers were petitioning G.A. to return in special session to rescind a terrible resolution?
I know of two PCUSA members who have left because of the Israel Divestment. How many others have left?
Larry Rued, elder First Presbyterian Church, Bradenton, Fla.