A church in Illinois voted overwhelmingly Sunday to disaffiliate with the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the session of a Texas church has voted to recommend that its congregation follow the same route out of the denomination.
Church votes to disaffiliate
During Sunday’s (10/18/15) congregational meeting, members of Westminster Presbyterian Church of Aurora, Ill., voted 123-17 to disaffiliate from the PCUSA and join ECO: A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians. The action took effect immediately.
The actions were taken “without rancor and with great respect between those who voted in the affirmative and those who dissented,” read a letter written the following day to the Rev. Dr. John Rickard, stated clerk of Blackhawk Presbytery. “We are proud of the conduct of our congregation and their strong commitment to following where the will of God leads them.”
The letter was signed the Rev. Dr. Charles C. Legvold, senior pastor of the 313 member church and Laura Machuca the clerk of session.
“We understand that our departure from the denomination and Blackhawk Presbytery will cause some pain and stress for you and others in leadership,” the letter stated, “but we assure you that, for the most part, our issues were not with the presbytery in particular, but with the continuing drift of the denomination away from orthodox belief and practice. We are open to the possibility of working with one another in ongoing mission within the current bounds of the presbytery, though we will be doing so as a part of another denomination.”
Legvold and Machuca stressed that the church was committed to working with those who do not wish to be part of an ECO congregation and that a letter would be sent to the congregation, inviting all to be part of the ECO congregation, but also offering to grant transfers to those who wished to leave.
Read the resolution approved by the congregation by clicking here.
Session recommends disaffiliation
The session of the 2,100 member First Presbyterian Church in San Antonio, Texas voted 21-2 on Oct. 12 to recommend to the congregation that it disaffiliate with the PCUSA and join ECO. The congregation will vote on the recommendation on Nov. 1.
In an Oct. 15 letter to the congregation, the session said that “We believe our denomination is not what it once was, and it has wandered from its Biblical and confessional moorings. We are not alone in this belief. Hundreds of churches have left the PCUSA in recent years and many others, like FPC, currently are in the process of determining how to respond to denominational changes.”
The letter cited PCUSA Moderator Heath Rada who has acknowledged that conservative churches are considering leaving the denomination because of its “theological drift of the past 10 years; concerns over how the PCUSA will find pastoral candidates who support the orthodox interpretation of Scripture; the denomination’s expenditure of funds; and the decline of membership.”
The letter was clear in stating that those same issues have been a concern at First Presbyterian. “We have been losing members over the past three years over denominational issues. If we do nothing, we are concerned this trend will accelerate.”
In a FAQ attached to the congregational letter, the session expressed its concerns that the PCUSA “has taken actions to move away from foundational values found in Scripture and expressed in our Confessions, and has embraced a less orthodox theology, along with a more political ideology.”
Those concerns include:
- the authority of Scripture;
- the centrality of Jesus as Lord and Savior;
- the mission of the church;
- the governance of the church;
- the decline of the denomination;
- PCUSA’s claim of a beneficial interest in and right of control over FPC’s property; and
- the consequences of the changes within the denomination.
The church is involved in a legal dispute with Mission Presbytery in civil court concerning who owns the property.
On May 11, FPC-San Antonio’s session voted unanimously to file a lawsuit in the civil courts to determine ownership of the church’s property. A ruling on the case is expected at any time.
And in the ecclesiastical realm, a complaint has been filed by a member of the presbytery against First-San Antonio’s Interim Pastor Ron Scates, accusing him of violating his ordination vows.
The presbytery has appointed a committee which will investigate the allegations and then make a recommendation to the presbytery as to what actions should be taken.
22 Comments. Leave new
I find it rich that their reason for not following the Presbytery’s Gracious Separation Process is that it could permit a minority to determine the future of the church. Of course, under their proposed procedure with just a 10% quorum and a simple majority vote, a mere 106 members theoretically could determine the denomination of a 2100 member church!
As I have written ad nauseum, our family of faith on the corner of Lincoln and Main in Belvidere, Illinois aka First Prresbyterian Church is committed to remaining faithfully along with many other “essentially” evangelical churches in the franchise; however, if the GA takes official action to go Kenyonesque on same-sex nuptials, moves per capita from a voluntary apportionment to a mandatory tax, or abandons our Biblical, confessional, constitutional, historical, and traditional Christology, “Turn out the lights! The party’s over!”
Unfortunately, as my brother in Aurora, Illinois witnesses and the great gospel group CCR crooned, “I see a bad moon arisen!”
Having remained since concluding nearly for decades ago that our franchise is “irretrievably apostate under current management” and the best that people who still believe in Jesus by the book can do is consider themselves as missionaries to the mainline, I am grieved by Chuck’s and Louie’s successor decision that may become inevitable for the remnant that may be the next target of overtures by the way left ideological fascists.
Jesus pukes at what has become of the PCUSA.
But please do not think I am thaaaaaaaat down about it.
Jesus wins in the end and the apostates better take a long look at those red letters and the closing chapter of Revelation.
In the meantime, as Paul Roberts exhorted us in the founding of CCM, “Look up! Stand up! Speak up! Act up for Jesus!”
Salt!
Shine!
Leaveanate!
Dang!
It’s four decades not “for” decades.
Well, I guess you could take that either way…like the PCUSA does most things.
Uh, sorry.
Uh, not.
BTW, I guess that mistake just proves I can make as many mistakes as the…
Oops!
😉
Dang two!
Lots of misssssssspellings!
Haste makes…
Kinda like the PCUSA.
Despite over 2K years of relative fidelity to Jesus by the book – more than less – never with the audacity to say, “I know that’s what Jesus and book say,…but we think!” – the PCUSA has reimagined Christianity: “So the PCUSA created God in its image. In the image of the PCUSA, the PCUSA created God.”
Really, I’ve had too much caffeine today; or is it that I’m really tired after a day of real gospeling by the book that the PCUSA has…
Enough.
Going to teach a Bible study class while the PCUSA lives by its process theologians!
Is that Jim Morrison singing in the empty chancels, “This the…”?
Sorry.
Nah.
Humor helps as the PCUSA goes to…
Not the point. There have been instances where the church has voted overwhelmingly to leave and the Presbytery has recognized the minority voters as the “true church” and awarded the property to them. Don’t worry, though. I am most certain First San Antonio will have a large turn out.
10% of 2100 is 210. No one wants a simple quorum to decide the outcome. Every active member is being urged to attend and vote. If they do not vote that is purely their decision.
You find it “rich?” Interesting choice of words, as “riches” seem to be exactly what the PCUSA is seeking over the Word of God. Yes, we see what other churches have endured when they have tried to follow the not-so-gracious separation policy of PCUSA. Ask those little Presbyterian churches in the Rio Grande Valley who were locked out of their building by PCUSA; that worked out real well for them.
What you and many others fail to understand is that what is going on so very much akin to the gradual takeover of our country by the radical Left. For them, no lie is too great to tell, no accusation too false to not employ, and no action too harsh as long as it advances the cause; the elimination of freedom and the spiritual nature of our country. The preferred tactic of the Left has always been to take a grain of truth and exploit, expand and pervert it to help them accomplish their mission. Do not be misled. The Lord knows the score and will deal with those who distort and pervert His Word.
“however, if the GA takes official action to go Kenyonesque on …”
not IF…..but WHEN
What is the common thread here in all these various news items? Churches leaving, departing ,seeking separation from the PCUSA.
Over my career I have served on 3 ACs, in three different Presbyteries, all dealing with churches in schism, fracture, departure from the PCUSA for various reasons. As we sat around the table and processed the issues from the Presbytery perspective we did spend some time on the people issues, pastoral care, ministry to folks who remained. But 95% of our discussions across both times and presbyteries dealt with money, power dynamics, and seeking to maximize monetary return to Presbytery in terms of real estate settlements.
Church fractures by their nature are painful times for all. There are rarely good and positive outcomes for both sides. But the apologists, enabler, supporters of the PCUSA who assume the system or organization has their best interest at heart as either believers or human beings are greatly mistaken.
For the remnant or minority that remains who still pledge loyalty to the PCUSA, the system and organization does not care about you, does not love you, and will not extend themselves for your care or benefit. They care about your money and property. and how to maximize both in these church schism matters. As long as you understated that, or accept that, then by all means continue to love your PCUSA. They do not love you back. Nor are they your buddies and friends. The minority that remains in the PCUSA in these matters will find that out soon enough.
Don’t look for a “Kenyonesque” decision from the GA. Rather, look for it from the PJC, as was the original Kenyon decision in 1975. Likewise, I suspect that you will see a PJC ruling insisting that all ordained officers be willing to participate in the ordination of practicing homosexuals before you see a ruling requiring all ordained officers be willing to perform same-gender “marriages”.
The language of the original UPCUSA PJC decision regarding the ordination of Walter Wynn Kenyon, who declined to participate in the ordination of women:
“Neither a synod nor the General Assembly has any power to allow a presbytery to grant an exception to an explicit constitutional provision. A candidate who chooses not to subscribe to the polity of this church may be a more useful servant of our Lord in some other fellowship whose polity is in harmony with the candidate’s conscience.”
And Jesus’ only prayer for the modern church is, “That they may all be one.” I am saddened
Totally agree. Only question is how soon before we see an “injured party” file a case.
Honestly, I was surprised that more churches are leaving the PCUSA. I though that the ones that remained are mostly ok with the changes. For the life of me, I don’t know why a Christian who follows Jesus and sees the bible as the inspired word of God can remain in the PCUSA. It’s so good to read from those who have left and found a good church that still teach the fundamentals of the Christian faith. The PCUSA as it was years ago is no longer and it will probably remain a denomination just like many other mainline denominations that have enough money to keep them going.
Even as late as five years ago, one could still find faithful Evangelical congregations in the PC(USA), which faithfully proclaimed the Word of God as “the infallible rule for faith and practice”. Today, these have become much more rare.
In 1991, I left a Theologically Liberal UMC congregation in Wichita for an Evangelical PC(USA) congregation (Eastminster). When a job change took me to the Kansas City area in 1996, I transferred my membership to another Evangelical PC(USA) congregation (Colonial). Both of these remained in the PC(USA) to be “salt and light” in the context of a denomination that had “turned away from listening to the truth and wandered off into myths” (II Tim. 4.4). However, after the PC(USA) GA voted for the final time in 2010 to remove the former §G-6.0106b from the Book of Order, allowing the ordination of impenitent adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals to church office, both Colonial (in 2010) and Eastminster (in 2011) disaffiliated from the PC(USA) and affiliated with the EPC.
When a job change last year brought my wife, daughters, and me to Denton, Texas, no nearby PC(USA) congregations could be found that faithfully proclaimed the Word of God from the pulpit, and no EPC or ECO congregations could be found within easy driving distance of our home. So now we worship at a PCA congregation here in Denton that faithfully preaches the Word.
Jesus instructs us to pray “Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the,laborers are few. Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out Laborers into His harvest.” ”
That is what should unite us, but the PCUSA has put political and cultural matters before this call by Jesus and that means division.
Jesus did not say go and be involved in politics, rather Jesus gave the Great Commission To build God’s Kingdom. Churches that are leaving can no longer be in unity with the PCUSA mission. Those who stay are buying into the priorities of the denomination. The movement out of the PCUSA is all about unity with the call to mission and the priority of this verse to be laborers in the field and bring many to Christ.
It is sad that language was not used to support provision G-6 from 1996 to 2006. G-6 was then superseded (unconstitutionally) by an AI recommended by the PUP task force. Under nFOG, AI’s are the new mechanism to advance unconstitutional and un-Biblical theology and practice in the PCUSA. Even now after 14F, the GA Office of Theology acknowledges the two parts of the PCUSA constitution are in conflict. Look for an AI based on the “Unity” emphasis from Belhar to compel Teaching Elders to participate or leave. Ironic, considering the language the ACC used to deny an AI recommendation in 2003.
“The process of authoritative interpretation should be used sparingly, and for the purpose of defining potentially ambiguous word or phrases of the BOO, rather than for setting forth detailed procedures or advice as to how the provisions of our Constitution should be administered.”
I think he was making the point that 106 would be a majority of that 210.
Just out of curiosity, when can we expect these Kenyonesque decisions? Kopp et. al. have been preaching their “Gospel of the Sky is Falling” for months since the language was approved, yet I know of no such disciplinary cases.
Seven months and not one such case. It doesn’t really take that long to file one, you know. And given that you’re so sure it will happen, you’d think they would have had one ready to file 7 months ago to make their point.
Perhaps, like the Spanish Inquisition, their greatest weapon is fear and surprise.
Only a suspicion but it may be that the plan is to wait a bit to not give any more reason for people and congregations to leave in the short run. My guess is about a year from now. Rest assured that there will be a case filed and the process will be swift.
So, Marvin, in a year, if no charges have been filed, and yet Kopp and his Chicken Little set keep telling us that the sky is still going to fall, and I ask this question again, what will the rationalization be then?
And “the plan” on the part of whom? Where is your evidence that this “plan” about which you speak is real?
Chicken Little?
Obviously, you ain’t been reading http://www.koppdisclosure.com
Let me put it another way.
Moody was criticized by someone like, uh, us, you know, the fainthearted, who said he didn’t like the way that Moody did evangelism.
Moody: “I prefer the way I do it to the way you don’t do it.”
Another great American said, “Some say there’s a bear in the woods. Some say there’s no bear in the woods. Isn’t it better to be prepared just in case there’s a bear in the woods?”
Read up on the K case, friend.
The parallels are striking…timing, et.al.
Ostrich ecclesiology: “All is well! Nothing to see here!”
Titanic theology.
But I do like to be called names.
Love you, man!
P.S. Always amazed by people who call me such names yet never let us know who they are! It’s O.K. The thought police are always watching; and it could hurt when circulating the PIF. Ozzy has a song about that! Lighten up!
Also, brother, I won’t take offense if you don’t read http://www.koppdisclosure.com
Few do.
In fact, I have never written a best-seller and I’m running behind Joel O in sales by about a trillion to one.
Talk about humiliation!
That’s why, I guess, it doesn’t hurt so badly to stay in the PCUSA.
😉