Fewer evangelicals consider PCUSA an option
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
Excellent commentary [“Where was the Stated Clerk?”]. Most people here in the Northeast believe that the PCUSA ordains active, unrepentant gays because that’s all they hear. Some evangelicals who attend our church say they don’t want to join because of the PCUSA’s stance on gay ordination. They’re amazed when we tell them about the existence of G-6.0106b in the Book of Order.
A press commentary from the Stated Clerk to that effect would have been very helpful during all the press coverage about the resignation of the pastor at Mount Kisco. The press’ position was that he was resigning because of allegations of improper sexual relations with minors, his being a self-affirmed, practicing gay was not even an issue. A press statement from the office of the Stated Clerk simply stating what the Book of Order says would have been very helpful.
Fewer and fewer evangelicals in the Northeast consider the PCUSA an option.
I agree that the Stated Clerk has become the Invisible Man.
Paul Leggett
It is time for clerk to get out of the way
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
Someone has said, “Either Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.”
The stated clerk of the PCUSA chose to get out of the way in reference to the Baltimore Presbytery.
It is time for the stated clerk to get out of the way if he still chooses to do nothing in upholding the Constitution of the PCUSA.
Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del.
Clerk’s first duty is not to defend constitution
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
I write in response to Parker Williamson’s commentary posted on The Layman Online on Nov. 25, titled “Where Was the Stated Clerk?”
This commentary continues the position that is emanating from various segments of our denomination that the stated clerk of the General Assembly is the “chief ecclesiastical officer” of the church, whose “first duty is to defend the constitution.”
I believe that this understanding of the duties and responsibilities of the stated clerk is in error, and is contrary to the historic principles of governance that our denomination has followed, virtually since its inception.
First, let me establish my background on this issue. If I were to be labeled according to the common theological ones in use, I am a conservative or evangelical, having graduated from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in 1981 (although I later finished a doctor of ministry program at Union, Richmond). Despite have attended a non-Presbyterian seminary, I was twice elected stated clerk of the Presbytery of Huntingdon in central Pennsylvania and served in that capacity for over nine years.
Prior to that, I was chairperson of a committee that investigated and prosecuted a case of sexual misconduct in a presbytery trial and synod appeal. I have advocated several overtures on the General Assembly level, and was a parliamentary adviser for the 1994 Assembly in Wichita. Bottom line: my response to your commentary should not be taken as the usual knee-jerk reaction you often get to your editorial positions.
However, I do know the system and how it is supposed to work, and what the roles and responsibilities are for the people in the system. As a stated clerk of a presbytery, I had a number of responsibilities. Included in them was being available to the 56 sessions within Huntingdon Presbytery if they needed advice about constitutional matters.
I made it clear when I answered such inquiries that my response was the opinion of their presbytery’s stated clerk, not a ruling made by someone who was the chief constitutional officer in the presbytery. If they wanted something more than an opinion, that is, an official interpretation of the constitution, there was only one way to get it (outside of judicial process), and that was to send a formal request to the General Assembly. After review by the Advisory Committee on the Constitution and an Assembly Committee, the General Assembly itself would approve an official interpretation of what the constitution means (G-13.0103r; cf. G-13.0112c).
The stated clerk of the General Assembly is no different from what I was when I served in Huntingdon Presbytery. Our constitutionally-defined responsibilities are the same (G-9.0203a). If the clerk had gone to Baltimore, anything he said would have been his opinion, and nothing more. The clerk simply is not empowered by our form of government to rule by fiat on constitutional issues, or to impose his opinions on any person or governing body.
We don’t give such powers to individuals, but to the governing bodies themselves. If there is an issue within a governing body that needs to be resolved, then those of us who have vowed “to be governed by our church’s polity and abide by its discipline” (G-14.0207e; no ordination vow uses the words “defend the constitution”) should make sure it gets resolved, even if it requires sending “appeals … from lower to higher governing bodies, till they be finally decided by the collected wisdom and united voice of the whole Church” (G-1.0400, adopted first by the 1797 General Assembly).
Personally, I don’t want either the clerk or the moderator of the General Assembly assuming and exercising such power!
This is not to say that what happened in Baltimore is right. If their actions are contrary to the constitution, it isn’t the stated clerk of the General Assembly’s responsibility to interject himself into the process to correct it. There are procedures in place by which alleged irregularities and delinquencies by Baltimore Presbytery and its PJC can be addressed or appealed. It appears that the Synod of the Mid-Atlantic has already begun a special administrative review of Baltimore Presbytery on some of these issues, which is a somewhat extraordinary (and embarrassing) situation, given that it is a synod reviewing a presbytery, not a presbytery reviewing a session.
Some of these actions conceivably could reach the level of the General Assembly PJC. If they do, it underscores another good reason for the stated clerk of the General Assembly to stay clear of what is happening in Baltimore, and allow the lower governing bodies to do their work. Any matter of judicial process places the stated clerk in the role of adviser to all parties in the case, as to proper procedures for filing and proceeding with their business.
A stated clerk is supposed to function as a neutral party in these matters, open to all parties without displaying prejudice to their positions. How would it serve the good order of the church for the General Assembly’s clerk to violate this expectation by interjecting himself into a presbytery-level matter is best handled at that level?
Get a grip, Parker! How we resolve the challenges and defiance to G-6.0106b flowing out of Baltimore, Cincinnati and elsewhere will largely determine the future vitality and success of our denomination. But your attempts to drag the stated clerk of the General Assembly into the issue and pillory him for failing to do what he is not empowered by our system to do is a circus sideshow act. It can draw a crowd, but the real show is inside the big tent.
If there is a constitutional crisis within the Presbyterian Church, it isn’t only that there are those who have tried repeatedly to change the position of the denomination on certain issues, haven’t succeeded, and are now actively bending and outright breaking it. The greater constitutional crisis is that so many who have vowed to be governed by the polity our constitution outlines, and abide by its discipline, seem to be so ignorant of what it says in the first place!
Daniel S. Williams, Pastor Second Presbyterian Church, Staunton, Va.
Overture to give stated clerk more power
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
I agree with you, Mr. Williamson, as to what the stated clerk of the General Assembly could have done in Baltimore.
However, as I am looking at the Book of Order, the role we wish for is not there in accordance to the Book of Order (G-9.0203 a. & b.). In addition, I thought the moderator was who was elected to speak for the church, in line with the Council of Jerusalem model we Presbyterians have related our polity style to for these past hundred or so years. Yet in the end, both those actions we wish the stated clerk of the GA could take as well as the moderator come more from “traditional” expectations, and less from the current Book of Order.
I would be one with those who would like to pass an overture to vest more responsibility to the two offices so they may performed like their counterparts in other Reformed bodies in Europe. Yet we then also run the risk of the two offices becoming more like constitutional “bishops” with the equivalent power of an archbishop in the Anglican communion or even lesser, a Lutheran bishop. I am not sure many of the Layman’s readers would support that action (but then I could be wrong).
Rev. Christian Boyd Jeffersontown Presbyterian, Ky.
Clerk on course to destroy church
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
Mr. Kirkpatrick, our esteemed stated clerk, seems bent on a course to destroy this denomination. I can express it no other way. How can we replace him? There must be some machinery available to believeing Christians to do this.
Tip Chase
PCUSA is in a self-destructive vacuum
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
Thank you for “Where was the Stated Clerk?”, a commentary by Parker T. Williamson (The Layman Online Monday, Nov. 25).
We are in a vacuum. Vacuums, by their very nature, cannot sustain themselves. In fact, the physics of a vacuum causes it to work aggressively to destroy itself. Something is going to rush in soon to fill it. May it be the Lord God’s most Holy Spirit leading His people to repentance as a holy witness to His perfect will!
Greg Leaman Oostburg, Wisc.
Trust the system?
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
I am tired of hearing this mantra whenever I say, “We are in a constitutional crisis.”
If you want to know why I scoff at your protest, keep reading.
In recent months I have been told:
“Be patient, even though the committee on ministry broke the rules, you can trust the presbytery?”
Then it was …
“Be patient, even though the presbytery broke the rules, you can trust the investigating committee?”
Then it was …
“Be patient, even though the investigating committee broke the rules, you can trust the presbytery’s PJC.”
Then it was …
“Be patient, even though the presbytery’s PJC broke the rules, you can trust the synod’s administrative commission.”
All of this is from only one case growing out of Baltimore Presbytery. But we all know the plague has spread.
All the while …
- Hudson River Presbytery tolerates poly-theistic worship;
- West Jersey Presbytery sends a non-Christian to pastor a church;
- The Covenant Network has a speaker who says, “Jesus didn’t need to die for my sins.”
Please don’t tell again, “Be patient and trust the system!” The system is working?
Phooey, my 7 years old son told better lies than this after he hit his younger brother.
Rev. L. Rus Howard Peters Creek Presbyterian Church, Venetia, Pa.
Stated Clerk should be impeached
Posted Tuesday, November 26, 2002
I believe sincerely that the stated slerk should be impeached, if this is possible. Can his impeachment be brought to a vote by Presbyterians nationwide? If it can be done, it should be started as soon as possible.
Mr. Kirkpatrick has failed to uphold his oath of office wherein he vowed to uphold the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church (USA) and is not fit for office in our church.
I am horrified at the depths to which the Presbyterian Church has sunk. We are known as a “gay church,” and I for one am deeply ashamed of that fact. It makes me want to seek another denomination and cease being Presbyterian.
Lona McArdle Second Presbyterian Church, (a Confessing Church) , Newark, Ohio
Dekker danced around question ‘Is Jesus Christ God?’
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
When subscribing to the Westminster Confession’s of Faith is abandoned, the result is for now, approving an unbeliever into the church of Jesus Christ as a Presbyterian minister.
The Westminster Confession needs to be subscribed to so people like Helen Dekker will not desecrate the name of Christ. A simple question posed to Helen Dekker, “Is Jesus Christ God?” Dekker should have no reservation about the answer, but she dances around the answer and those people hearing her dance are ignorant of Reformed theology. If they know Reformed theology, it would be a no-brainer.
If one cannot answer that Jesus Christ is fully God and man, then one has no business being in the ministry. I wish someone would read Philippians 2 on the hypostatic union of Christ. How about John 3:16, Jesus being the only begotten Son of God? I would like to know from Dekker, what does begotten mean? There should be no language difficulty in explaining begotten.
To me, it is plain and simple. She is not Biblical in her explaining of the Trinity. She needs to be removed from ministering in the PCUSA.
Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del.
Remove the sinners and let’s get on with God’s work
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
Your article, “Baltimore Presbytery fails to uphold constitution,” greatly saddens me. I have been studying the church’s constitution and I find no authority for individuals, churches or presbyteries to take the actions the Baltimore Presbytery or “Rev.” Stroud are taking. The Bible (the Word of God) makes it clear that sin is wrong (defiance of God’s will) and sinners who do not repent and seek forgiveness are to be cast out.
I fail to see why these particular cases are taking so much time and energy away from the Presbyterian church’s mission of spreading the gospel. If these sinners continue to defy the Word of God, remove them from our midsts and let us get on with the work at hand. We – the church of Jesus Christ – are in spiritual warfare with the enemy – Satan. These “people” who openly defy not only our constitution but the Word of God must be removed from our camp. There are the enemy’s agents sent behind our lines to destroy us from within. We must root them out and expel or destroy them before they can destroy us!
Bill Bailey
Normal filtering software deems Monologues’ site pornography
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
I contacted the staff at the Presbyterian Center regarding the Presbyterian Center blocking access to Web site. I was told that the server was receiving maintenance and that she would get back to me with additional information. I trust that there was nothing deceitful being practiced, and that the members of the Presbyterian Church (USA) will have full access to this portion of our web site. If the public access to this site has been blocked permanently (in which case I was given false information by the staff) I would expect that the parties responsible for this decision will make their reasons known.
I would also like to add that when I attempted to link to The Vagina Monologues site to see what all the fuss was about, I was unable to access the site without disabling my family’s Internet filtering software. I use standard settings and this site was deemed pornography. After viewing the site and the associated links it was obvious why. The fact that a portion of the proceeds were going to a very worthy cause does not justify the church sponsoring the sale of tickets. Before I gave my life to Jesus, I used to do a lot of immoral things and I would sometimes try to ease my conscience by donating part of the proceeds to charitable causes. I now realize that this did not remove the sin from the acts I had committed. I feel that the staff in Louisville needs to be more accountable to the people in the pews who pay their salaries.
Brian Ahier The Dalles, Ore.
I put my name on everything I write’
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
During the past 6 weeks, I have been besieged with criticism for co-authoring the Call to Confession and Repentance, for going to Louisville to post this declaration, and for initiating the petition Calling for the Resignation of Clifton Kirkpatrick.
Some of these attacks have come from unknown faces hiding behind the veil of secret internet e-mail names and backroom gossip. These individuals, who refuse to reveal themselves to me, never have to be held accountable for their attacks.
Some of these attacks have come from individuals who in private conversation, say, “Let’s kick those reprobates who defy the constitution out of the church!” Yet, in public, where they can be held accountable, they say nothing.
Some of these attacks have come from individuals who hide behind the protective mask of the organization that employs them. I wonder if they would criticize me if they were speaking only for themselves.
Some of the attacks have come from individuals who enjoy criticizing the ideas of others, while never putting forth an idea of their own. They won’t take a chance and offer an opinion, this way they can never be criticized for being wrong.
Some of the attacks have come from individuals who are afraid to speak up because they don’t others to know where they stand. They think they are fooling folks on both sides of the fence.
When I was a boy I learned two things from my Dad:
1. Have an opinion and take a stand, you’ll do more good than those who don’t.
2. Claim responsibility for what you do.
You see, I put my name on everything I write. I tell you how to contact me.
I have never claimed to be perfect or to have all the right answers, but at least I am willing to be wrong and to be held accountable.
During the past two years I have developed the deepest respect for two men in our denomination.
First is Parker Williamson, the editor of The Layman. He has proven his integrity to me. There is not another person in this denomination who has consistently acted from his convictions, despite the criticisms thrown at him. If it were not for Parker, conservative evangelicals would not know how bad things are in our church. Yet, time and time again, I hear Parker maligned by conservative evangelicals in our denomination who do not want to be associated with him.
Second, is Howard Edington, the pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Orlando. Howard could quietly spend his days in Orlando ignoring our constitutional crisis and building the congregation he loves. But Howard is willing to take a stand. In fact, he is the only pastor of a mega-church in our denomination willing to take hits for speaking out against the ills of our denomination. Howard’s integrity has come with a price. For this reason, I respect, admire, and try to emulate him.
Personally, I believe our denomination is dying because too many individuals don’t have the guts to stand up for they really believe. They are not willing to be held accountable. They are not willing to pay the price. They are not willing to battle the demonic evil trying to overtake our church.
Thus, in the spirit of my southern heritage, let me offer a word to all of you who want to criticize me in secret, who never have a public opinion, who are too comfortable to take a stand, and who want someone else to fight their battles.
“Bless you!”
Rev. L. Rus Howard Peters Creek Presbyterian Church, Venetia, Pa.
Concerning God’s Word, we cannot have linguistic problems
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
“This could be nothing more than a linguistic problem.”
God tells us that a teacher of His Word will be held more accountable than others.
When it comes to the basic truths of the Gospel we should not and cannot have linguistic problems. The Rev. Billy Graham is well understood by most of those who hear him speak. They may not become believers, but they understand what he is saying.
If Dekker cannot express her beliefs simply so that most of those who hear or read her belief statements, then she is not worthy of preaching and leading in the name of Jesus the Christ. His name is not just Jesus; it is Jesus the Christ.
Something must be done about those church leaders who do not believe and are not committed to the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. I guess they don’t realize what a great responsibility God has given to them and how accountable to God they are.
May our Lord open all our hearts to one another in love, but not in such a way that God’s Word is watered down and we teach that all things are acceptable.
Bob McGregor
Monologues pornography? That’s ‘complete and total ignorance’
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
Unlike those who brand Vagina Monologues pornography, I have actually seen the show. In fact, I have seen it twice, in New York City and in San Francisco. To term the show pornography is to show complete and total ignorance. The show is for adults, and it does deal with adult themes. It deals with rape, the subjugation of women and with the issues of how women are treated in various societies. It is thought-provoking and very well written. It is far from pornographic, and in no way fits the definition of pornography. The performances that I saw did not include any of the so-called promotions of lesbianism. Judging without seeing is a form of sophistry.
As an aside, the Holy Bible deals with the issue of circumcision. A play could be written about the subject based on the Biblical stories and the issues involved. It starts in Genesis and continues into the New Testament. It could involve humor and reflection. Would the Lay Committee deem that pornography? Probably so, because it involves mention of human body parts.
As usual, the Lay Committee seeks to sensationalize about which it does not know.
Art Seaman Kittanning, Pa.
Clerk should not thwart the Constitution
Posted Monday, November 25, 2002
The Reverend Rus Howard is right. It’s all about leadership. The Presbyterian Church (USA) has the kind of leaders its liberals want: wishy washy liberals who substitute platitudes for preaching the Word, who prattle about “building bridges” while they “deconstruct” the theological and doctrinal fabric of this church. If the stated clerk cannot in good conscience do his job, it is his Christian obligation to resign from that job. After he resigns, Kirkpatrick can work to change the constitution if he wishes, but what he should not do … in all Christian decency … is thwart its provisions because he disagrees with them.
And, while we are at it, the moderator should resign as well. His visit with Palestine Liberation Organization leader Yasir Arafat, was ill-advised. Arafat is a terrorist whose sworn to destroy Israel. He is a Moslem who prays to Allah, a false and nonexistent god. Three thousand years ago, the Lord God Jehovah warned his children about mixing Baal worship with worship of the one true God. They erected their ashera poles anyway. “The Lord thy God is a jealous God,” Mr. Moderator, it is one thing to pray for a sinner, a terrorist who sends young men and women laden with explosives to kill themselves and as many innocent people as possible; it is quite another to pray with him. While the moderator prayed to our eternal and never-changing triune God, Arafat prayed to a nonexistent, pagan god. I assume the moderator understood that. If he did, he should be impeached. If he did not, he should be impeached. Either way, he is not the man to lead this church in this time of crisis. We need someone who understands who it is we are supposed to be serving and is committed to doing just that.
Earl H. Tilford, Jr. East Main Presbyterian Church, Grove City, Pa.