False Presbyterian teacher denies Jesus rose from the dead

Hey, what are you posting stuff about Jim Rigby for? I am the real and true heretic, false teacher, wolf in sheep’s clothing, carpetbagger, apostate, scalawag, vagabond, and hoodlum here! Thou shalt have no one before me!

How is it that so many on the left are so riduclously arrogant and condescending in their sarcasm? Someone would actually think this is written by an adolescent….and I don’t know what to think about “John Shuck”‘s comment here!!…if it really could be him…..then he is indeed squirrellier (more squirrelly?) than people thought.

OK, I’ll ask. Do you affirm of Jesus “On the third day he arose from the dead, with the same body in which he suffered?”

Say what you will, this man impresses me deeply. Unlike most traditional pastors, he speaks to young people, progressive Christians, and others who hunger for social as well as personal transformation. Jim Rigby offers a vision of what Christianity can be for our era. So many traditional churches have a blind spot about social justice; for example, they basically missed the first civil rights movement and are in the process of missing the second. The prophetic vision of justice-love put forth by Isaiah, Micah, Jeremiah and others like them aren’t heard or taken seriously in most churches these days, which is one reason why young people are leaving in droves. If saying all that makes me a heretic too, so be it. Rigby is awesome!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions………

One could say the same about “The Layman”, and other conservative renewal groups and their blatant disregard for the teachings of Jesus Christ, in terms of economic and social justice causes.

No!

What does economic and social justice have to do with “Jesus being raised from the dead”?

A cursory glance at PCUSA stats for Jim Rigby’s church in Austin, Texas reveals that the church’s membership in 2013 was exactly the same as it was ten years earlier in 2003 – in other words, totally stagnant. If young people in the Austin metropolitan area are leaving traditional churches in droves, as you say, Ann, it seems fairly clear that few of them are finding their way to St. Andrews to hear Jim Rigby’s wonderful sermons. I’m afraid that if Jim Rigby and St. Andrews are illustrative of what progressives have to offer to the world around them, then the world is in serious trouble.

Matthew, you talk here about people who disregard the teachings of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you can cite for me the relevant passages in the teaching ministry of Jesus where he addresses social justice issues like same-sex marriage, climate change, and white privilege. Since your standard of judgment is the teachings of Jesus Christ, I would be curious to know just what Jesus himself had to say about these things.

wallowing in arrogance, with confidence? really? are you God? Lord have mercy on you.

I’m certain that you Matthew, being as smart as you evidently are, know that those who identify as conservatives give more of their time and treasure to those economic and social issues than those who identify otherwise. (even thought they, as a class, have less ‘treaure’ to give). So just who is hypocritical?

Good luck with that. I don’t mind that he feels that way, but why drag others into the lake of fire with you? As a pastor, you are held to a higher standard by God. I see his arrogance shining through. Foolish idolatry. Fortunately, God will give his people every opportunity to repent. Unfortunately, many will ignore those opportunities and dig-in their heels. They will be Satan’s captains going down with the ship in the end. We already know who wins.

That’s definitely John. John’s definition of leadership is finding a parade and getting in front of it. John defends vigorously his role as drum major with a PR effort that would make a politician envious. The more silliness that gets presented as the message of Jesus Christ the more I’m reminded of Chesterton’s warning of “the constant danger of the church missing the point and sliding away from the Faith into some vague sort of syncretistic, gnostic, gobbledygook”

Are you kidding? Jim has 1000’s of follower’s on social media. If you’ve ever read him for any length of time you’d be amazed at such a gentle, intelligent soul he is. As well as to the point on so many issues.

And neither did the beginning apostles and the majority of follower’s. The Gnostic movement was reined in by politics and a grab for power by the early Catholic churches who wanted a uniform doctrine which had nothing to do with the reality and mysteries of the teachings and death and resurrection of Jesus (PBUH). Even St. Jerome, when he codified the ‘Bible’ is on written record as saying there was no ‘trinity’ in the bibles he was inspecting.

No, Michael, I’m not kidding. Jim Rigby is the pastor of a church of several hundred members in a growing metropolitan area of Texas with a population of over one million people, and yet the membership in his church has been stagnant for the last ten years, as reported by the PCUSA. You may claim that he has thousands of “followers” on social media (out of 320+ million people in this country), and maybe he does, but real, live, flesh and blood people in Austin and Travis County just don’t seem to be particularly impressed by him, however much you may swoon at the sound of his voice.
You need to lay off the Kool-Aid, Michael, the stuff you are being asked to drink will kill you, in more ways than one.

Lord have mercy, Michael. You really have been gulping down a lot of Kool-Aid!
And by the way, just so that you know, when a Muslim writes PBUH after Jesus’ name, it is a sign of his respect for Jesus. When you “progressive christians” write it, it is only a sign that you are trying to show everybody how cool, enlightened and inclusive you are. A Muslim’s PBUH is all about Jesus, your PBUH is all about yourself.
As I say, Michael, you need to lay off the Kool-Aid.

…so heavenly minded, you are of no earthly good. God’s revelation (in all forms) speaks volumes about both personal transformation and the transformation of social structures – open your ears to the entirety of the gospel my friend.

Why so much focus on “member” numbers Donnie? There is vast evidence that formal membership of any kind is not going to be a good way to understand how the church and ministry is changing in today’s membership adverse world. Look at Pew research on Millennial gen cohort and you can see that formal membership is not what the future is about. God may be moving to make a new thing, time will tell. You should at least be open to new ways of ministry I would think.

……..and this the state of the PCUSA and its ever diminishing membership. This heresy has been bubbling under for a long period of time. And yes, for those who do not believe, there is a warmer place you will spend eternity…… Add to that the numbers you have misinformed and led astray. Things aren’t looking too good for you or the PCUSA. Time for mass abandonment of these knuckleheads.

Interesting thing to bring up. *Nearly* every time there is some article about some church or other wanting to break off and head for EPC or ECO or whatever, if you look them up they have lost enormous numbers of members in recent years. Typical example: the layman has been all abuzz about 1st-San Antonio, where a third of members dropped in just a few years. I recall when that group of so-called “big steeple” churches was issuing their “deathly ill” manifesto a few years ago, eventually leading to ECO…when you looked them up most were losing members at a much faster rate than the denomination as a whole. Holding steady in a town such as Austin where many churches are moving toward irrelevance is something of an accomplishment.

True enough, Confessor, formal membership is not something that a lot of millennials consider particularly important. But even if a person were to look at the other metrics that are used to measure levels of involvement and commitment, such as attendance, giving, etc., St. Andrews is not an impressive institution.

Progressive religion of the sort represented by St. Andrews in Austin and Southminster in Portland is simply not an attractive option for the vast, overwhelming majority of normal, ordinary people. It is a “boutique religion” (not unlike that of the UUs, Quakers, etc.) that appeals only to a very small number of people, especially those who like to think of themselves are more enlightened than the unwashed masses.

Boutique religions, while interesting curiosities to observe and study, are never the wave of any actual future. And today’s millennials will most assuredly be tomorrow’s old folks. We will all discover what the future is when we actually get there. My suspicion is that the future before us will have no more use of the progressive religion of the late 20th and early 21st centuries than it will have for the late, unlamented mainline suburban religion of the 1950s. They’re all just passing fads.

West – also at churches trying to leave the PCUSA, they tend to “purge” rolls in the months before possible upcoming votes. I have seen this in several cases, not sure what the thinking is, but it seems they want to make sure they know who will be able to “vote”.

Donnie- wow, what do you base your hypothesis on? I would posit that some of the new things we are seeing in the church today will be the future. I think you could make the same observations you make about so called “evangelicals” whose focus is on boundary making and social mores conformity. As a whole evangelicals are splintering into so many factions and alliances that they will certainly diminish and retreat further over time.

Confessor, I watched a video some years back that had been made, if I remember correctly, at “The World of Tomorrow” exhibit at the 1939 World’s Fair in New York. The video was a blast. What people in 1939 thought the world would be like in the distant future was nothing at all like the actual future that came to pass.

The conceit of every generational cohort is that it stands at the center of history and can predict the future before it, or even determine that future. The fact is that all of us have the strong tendency to project into the future whatever we want it to be, and then declare that what we want is what will surely happen. History provides abundant evidence that we human beings have a very poor track record in making predictions, and a little humility is called for.

Just as with the suburban religion of the 1950s and the progressive religion of today I believe that there is much in contemporary evangelicalism, especially but not limited to the mega-church phenomenon, that is most definitely a passing fad — and the sooner it passes, the better. But for the last two thousand years there has been a common core of Christian beliefs and practices that have been affirmed by Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants alike. And it is my belief that whatever institutional shape it may take, this common core will form the Christianity of the future just as it formed the Christianity of the past. And anything that is out of harmony with these historic, shared beliefs and practices, like your much beloved progressive religion, is bound to come, and then go. ‘nuf said. Ciao.

On a personal level it is irrelevant what Rigby, a Shuck or any other PCUSA clergy says or believes. Or whatever comes out of their mouths. If they said on the floors of their respective presbyteries that God was a bag of turnips, that’s on them as far as their standings before the Lord in the eternal sense, and presbytery on the administrative sense.

The real story is that a church chooses to employ them, they are clergy in good standing in their respective presbyteries, and they have their followers and sycophants. It speaks more to their organization, denomination, their PNCs, the system that educated, supports, nurtures, enables, comforts them, holds their hands. Wipes their noses and whisperers in their ears that its all OK.

In the contemporary PCUSA there is no heresy, no good, no evil, no right, no wrong, no proper or improper, no virtue, no vice. Just the legion of un-redeamed minds leading to un-redeamed mouths. The unconverted preaching to the unconvinced and disinterested. Move along, no real story here.

Jphn has been the Layman’s great love. Not the first cause they denounced me ca. 1980 and then again ca. 1990. But there have been many other heretics beloved by the Layman. How about Dirk Ficca? Dirk, and Jim and John (and many other heretics) are all true saints, who understand that that there are a variety of ways of being Presbyterian. We can thank our forebears for that, because they valued education, a free search for truth, and the effort to to make the gospel relevant in every age.

“Making the gospel relevant” … by actively undermining, refuting, and denying its central tenets!!!???

…and another thing, One should be aware that all churches should now be working to make sure they are securing their funds. Shift the money to other outside accounts and put protections in place. This is good advice to all from someone who knows how these jackals and thieves work!

west- First Pres San Antonio had stable membership until the year the session decided not to call for a vote to leave PCUSA. A third of the congregation left as a result. The session learned their lesson, and now the church has moved to ECO. I would expect stable membership or growth now.

Sorry, Dennis Maher, but I don’t have clue who you are, or what you did or did not do ca. 1980 or ca. 1990, and don’t care. Nor do I know who this Dirk Ficca person is to whom you refer. You clearly have a desire to stroll down some kind of memory lane here, but it sounds like ancient history to me.

I do know something about who Jim Rigby and John Shuck are, and they are not heretics. A heretic is a Christian who denies or rejects one of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. These guys reject the Christian faith more or less completely, both in general and particular kinds of ways. They’re not heretics, they’re unbelievers.

Jim Rigby also believes God/Trinity & Burning Bus are just symbols according to his twitter account:

https://twitter.com/StAndrewsAustin

1 Paul, a servant[a] of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David[b] according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You are correct about what is the “real story” in this. Thanks for taking time to write.

Okay folks….I am the real one. (common tater) Pres-child is not me, no matter how close he hijacks my name on here. Seriously, he has real problems….too deep for me to try to analyze. Anyway, if you see someone posting anti-scriptural, or left-leaning pablum on here, rest assured it is not the real common tater. Thanks.

One could look at doing the following. First, have a friend or member setup a non profit charity not affiliated with the church, an independent non-profit! Have the session vote to make a donation to the charity of any funds you want to shelter just in case a hostile AC decides to give your church to a small “PCUSA remnant” group during the dismissal process. Have a verbal agreement that the non profit will make a grant back the group who is forced to leave and form a new ECO or EPC church, and this is how one could shift funds, if one was thinking that they may need to do this.

seriously, pres-child?!…..really, how OLD are you?

Confessor, the churches do purge their membership roles going into discernment. One reason is to get a real time numbers as people move and kids go to college, etc, etc. Vote pecentages are figured by the official membership roll. The second primary reason is for per-capita. In the separation agreement the church typically has to pay up to 5 years worth as ransom. If a 2000 member church has 400 – 500 people that haven’t attended in a year or more, that is a big hit to the finances.

As one who has been trolled early and often by the usual suspects I must say pres-child, the tot, whoever really has gotten better over the years, but still fails to capture either my style or form.

The last suggestion about a non-prophet charity as shell is very creative, though it would involve tax-id numbers and other creative means, not entirely legal from the tax code.

Now what was the topic here, oh yes, Jim Rigby. If I were him I could take comfort that those who do rush to his defense on this web site are the truly imbecilic, mentally ill, or just plain nuts. It is what it is.

“… truly imbecilic, mentally ill, or just plain nuts.”

That’s true, and it is one of the reasons that I have always halfway thought that if someone really wanted to discredit the PCUSA and its contemporary thought leaders like Jim Rigby and John Shuck, what better way to do this could there be than pretending to be a defender of the PCUSA while at the same time displaying a very low level of intelligence and a rude and obnoxious personality both of which would be sure to alienate any thinking person.

But then again, my own experience of trolls is that they really do have a very low level of intelligence and they really are rude and obnoxious people. They’re just being true to who they are, trolls.

It is now 2016 and the pusa hasn’t updated the numbers of the congregations since 2013. I guess there are some good reasons….

Dear Madam:

I am a believing Christian Protestant Presbyterian. I didn’t miss a thing, as a young man I watched with approval the fall of Jim Crow and the extension of all the rights and responsibilities of first class citizenship to all Americans. You missed something. Presbyterianism.

Christ is risen. He is risen indeed. Please go to Wikipedia and look up the five solas. Then read C. S. Lewis’s “Mere Christianity”. Then, at least, you will know what you missed.

Then read the Gospel of Mark, front to back, on sitting.

Then pray. By then you should know what to pray for.

It is not an easy path. But it is the very best ride in the park. The so called preacher? Pray for him. He needs it. BAD.

All the best. God bless us, everyone.

Exactly!

Hey Guys, our Lord Jesus Christ started His Church, not a denomination. All denominations are manmade.

Most High God, I submit to you, in company of all who are called to Your love at the Cross, to speak in interest of the souls of John Shuck, Jim Rigby and others who are being lead, and are leading others, away from Your saving grace. I pray for a devastating wave of Your revelation to overwhelm and turn them, as You did for the Apostle Paul. Only You, Lord, can overcome our folly. As Abraham prayed for a decreasing remnant to be saved from destruction, so I (we) pray for these poor, blind, bitter souls. In Jesus Name, Amen.