Earl Tilford’s letter of June 28
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I, for one, will be happy to color Earl H Tilford, Jr., Ph.D “gone.”
Dr. Tilford’s letter of the 28th casts the atrocities committed at Abu Ghraib Prison in Baghdad as “alleged mistreatment.” Apparently, the photographic record isn’t enough evidence for him. Or perhaps he thinks that attaching electrodes to a prisoner’s genitals doesn’t qualify as mistreatment. Or maybe Dr. Tilford considers forcing the prisoners to pose in sexually explicit positions or sodomizing them with chemical light sticks just good, plain, American fun. Unlikely, given his well-documented distaste in this and other venues for all things homosexual.
Dr. Tilford would have us believe that distance somehow absolves him and us from responsibility for actions taken by our soldiers in our name. He says he and we are not responsible because we weren’t there. As more and more details of the prisoner abuse emerge, it becomes more and more apparent that these barbarous acts were, if not explicitly condoned at high levels of the administration, they were at least winked at.
Mr. Lou S. Nowasielski, writing on the same date, at least calls the barbaric acts “tortures,” but implies in an astonishing leap of illogic that the killings in Munich over 30 years ago, the hostage-taking in Iran over 20 years ago, the downing of Pan Am Flight 103, and other bombings including the World Trade Center, all somehow combine to justify the shameful acts by our soldiers. He then quotes several verses from the Qur’an with which he paints all the prisoners as radical Muslims who deserve such treatment.
Any American should be outraged. Any Christian should be appalled. Is this the freedom that we have promised the Iraqis? Is this the shining example of democracy that we wish to hold up? On the face of it, it would appear as if the Iraqi people have merely traded one cruel tyrant for another.
I’ve only one question for Dr. Tilford. Given that you are so obviously unhappy in the PC(USA), why wait for the action of General Assembly? Just go
Dan Mertz .Milroy, Pa.
I’ll wait and see’ about the new moderator
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I’ll wait and see.
However, there is no way that one’s subjectivity will ever be so repressed that it will not affect the transparency of one’s decisions, guidance and message. The verbal message of this election is that those elected as delegates are either brainwashed by the “insight” of church “leaders” and their “theological insights,” or they are representing a true change in the theological basis of our Book of Confession/Book of Order.
As for the “no sin” speaker, what would one expect from an author who has adopted such a lifestyle? Maybe one needs to revisit Menninger’s What’s Become of Sin?
In reading the responses of Andrews and Kirkpatrick, I was immediately taken by the rationalizing of loss of power by the usage of the word “saddened.” I personally doubt the authenticity with which most of us would identify with that use of a word. Rather, “surprised,” “challenged,” “awakened,” might be better words to describe what might have been their response. Why? Because they thought they were above the Book of Order, which all who affirm the PCUSA as being our collective rules of engagement.
When such “stellar” members of our great church public display a “lukewarm” faith while justifying the same as being “prophetic,” I am no longer surprised with the ecclesiastical schizophrenic condition of our unity. The tide is coming in, not peacefully or with a sense of resolution and unity; rather, our great fellowship is once more being guided by such “elected” leaders and by the liberal voice of the church into a state of schism and “civil war.” Out of the conflagration, may there be a resurrection of faith and leadership.
Rev. Gilbert J. Fitzsimmons
About the election of the moderator
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
As a Presbyterian missionary in Tijuana, with several years of experience working on the U.S./Mexico border, I read with interest about the selection of your denomination’s new moderator and his interest in Mexico.
I have witnessed how Borderlinks and Frontera de Cristo, two perverted Presbyterian Church (USA)-related organizations on our country’s southern border, have wrought theological havoc on Mexico’s Presbyterian church. These two radical leftist groups have done much to damage the theological integrity of the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico by enticing a considerable number of Mexican pastors to abandon their sound Calvinist teaching in favor of a simplistic, politically motivated, far-left social gospel that blames the United States Border Patrol for all of Mexico’s problems.
Even so, there are those of us on both sides of the U.S./Mexican border who are working to preserve the authentic Calvinist theology of the Mexican church, and to heal her of the effects of the theological anthrax with which your denomination has poisoned her.
We orthodox Calvinists, Americans and Mexicans, will continue to preach justification by grace through faith, rather than liberation by revolution, and the forces of Biblical truth will triumph over Satanic apostasy and error.
May God save the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico from the house of theological prostitution that is the Presbyterian Church (USA). I have every confidence that He will.
Rev. Bradley Arakelian Presbyterian Church in America
Advocate forgot story of Sodom and Gomorrah
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
The gay advocate who spoke before the General Assembly on the 28th of June seems to have forgotten the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Perhaps, God has similar plans for the PCUSA. Three other communities who advocated sexual promiscuity met the same fate: Admah, Zeboim and Zoar.
It is possible that the Presbyterian Church (USA) will meet the same fate as these communities. I predict that the Confessing Churches will survive, and the Church of our fathers will be reborn.
Bill Marsh, Elder Allentown, Pa.
Gagnon is so correct
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I have read Dr. Gagnon’s “Open Letter: Task Force report distorts unity/purity message of Ephesians,” on Saturday, June 26, 2004.
Dr. Gagnon’s is one of the best theologians of our times, and what he has written is so correct. I believe that Christ wants His church to be pure, to stand on pure doctrine.
I would hope that the PCUSA would stand with Dr. Gagnon, the Bible and Christ, and would join with the Methodist Church on standing on the Bible.
Homosexuality, is not an OK style of life. It is not a life that the church can accept as the true teachings of the Bible, or any sound Christian doctrine, or theology.
I would hope that we can say to Christ, here we are, we will follow you, in all pure doctrine, in your Holy Word, and in sound Christian doctrine.
We need churches in this country and in the world that will be strong in their convictions, I would hope that we will!
Don Whitbeck
Congratulations to Ufford-Chase?
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
Congratulations to Ufford/Chase for being voted moderator of the PCUSA’s 216th G.A., but for him to say the following on gay ordination, which he supports, “It would not be appropriate for me to share my opinion,” is politically correct and insubordinate since the Book of Order must be defended against those unfit for ministry.
Will Ufford-Chase support the same as moderator, and will not Ufford-Chase do what he can behind the scenes to establish legal gay ordination? Did the assembly elect a gutless wonder, while rejecting a man of vision (McKechnie) who clearly understands the situation in the PCUSA?
Even though Ufford-Chase is a 40-year-old does not mean he will attract young people to the PCUSA with his view on gay ordination. If anyone thought that would be the case, the results will dictate the same in the next G.A. God will not bless disobedience to His Word (the Holy Bible) because two wrongs do not make a right.
Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del.
Goodbye to Andrews
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I will continue to pray for revelation to come to our befuddled leadership.
Richard Scanlon
Babbling in political tongues
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
Just before midnight on June 1, 2001, a Palestinian suicide bomber strolled into a crowd of youngsters cued up outside Tel Aviv’s hottest nightclub, the Dolphinarium, located on the seafront promenade about a mile north of the ancient port of Joppa. The terrorist then blew himself up, killing 21 kids; the youngest victims (four of them) were 15 years old, the oldest was 25.
The Nelimov family, recent immigrants from Russia, lost two daughters: Yulia age 16 and her older sister Yelena who was 18. The Dolphin nightclub attack was only one of 1,798 terrorist incidents in Israel perpetrated that year by groups associated with Yasir Arafat’s Palestinian Authority.
In 2002 and 2003, Palestinian terrorists undertook 1,776 and 1,742 attacks, respectively, with 504 recorded through the first of June for this year. Terrorists use three basic methods: suicide car bombs, individual suicide bombers detonating explosive belts, and suicide hit squads firing automatic pistols and tossing grenades. The total number of attacks comes to 5,280 over the past four years, resulting in over 700 Israelis killed, along with innocent Palestinians and others caught in the crossfire.
In the last week of June 2004, the Presbyterian Church (USA), an ultra-liberal remnant of a once great Protestant denomination, meeting in its annual General Assembly in Richmond, Va., passed Overture 04-32 submitted by the Presbytery of St. Augustine. This overture condemns Israel for acting in response to the 5,280 or more terrorist attacks unleashed by Arafat’s murderous cronies.
The overture cites Israel for its “occupation” of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan heights, areas before the 1967 war manned by the armies of Jordan, Egypt and Syria whose presence constantly threatened Israel. Among the PCUSA’s political pronouncements, the radical religious left’s equivalent of speaking in tongues, is an overture that condemns Israel for killing “several thousands of Palestinians” in response to “hundreds” of Israelis killed by suicide bombers.
While no substantiation is offered for the “several thousands” of Palestinians purportedly killed by Israelis, the fact is that on 5,280 occasions over the past four years terrorists operating from the West Bank, Gaza and the Bekka Valley have carried out attacks on Israel, killing hundreds of innocent people.
Israel’s response has been to target terrorist leaders and to erect a barrier through East Jerusalem to prevent suicide bombers from infiltrating at will. Fact is, targeting killings (dubbed “assassinations” by liberal Presbyterians) work. There have been no suicide bombings in Israel in the last four months. As for targeted killings, due to Israeli initiatives, the hunters are now the hunted.
Targeted killings go after the Hamas, Hezbollah, al Fatah and al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade leaders who plan the attacks. Israelis know that once the suicide bomber self-detonates, he (or she) is out of the equation. The idea is to prevent attacks by killing the leaders and destroying the group infrastructure: the planners, the bomb makers and the people who recruit bombers. In the last six months, over 400 people associated with suicide bombing have been arrested and incarcerated, along with those few “terminated with extreme prejudice.”
While interesting in the context of the culture war, the Presbyterian overture on Israel is de rigueur for what is fast becoming the poster child denomination for radically liberal Protestantism. In addition to condemning Israel, commissioners also confessed corporate guilt for the abuses allegedly committed by a handful of military police at Abu Ghraib, lifted most proscriptions against homosexual ordination, reaffirmed support for all forms of abortion, and declined to support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibiting gay marriage.
Is it any wonder the PCUSA lost 40,000 members last year? At its current rate of decline, averaging one member every 11 minutes, the denomination will be extinct by 2039. The radical liberals who dominate the PCUSA seem unaware that most American Christians support the armed forces, believe homosexual behavior is sinful, think killing babies in the womb is morally despicable and believe marriage, other than between a man and a woman, is physically impossible, morally reprehensible and should be illegal.
It was not always this way with Presbyterians. Many of America’s founders were Calvinists who modeled the federal system on denominational polity and wrote the U.S. Constitution based on governing church documents. So, how have liberal Presbyterians come to their current religious and political irrelevancy?
The answer is an obsession with political correctness in the era of post-modern Christianity. In the mid-1960s, when liberals took control of the PCUSA, they quickly abandoned definitive truth by declaring that the Bible, rather than being the Word of God, merely “contains” the word of God along with stories, myths and some suggestions which, if followed, offered blessed assurance that “I’m okay and you’re okay.” From there, it was a short jog to the promised land of moral relativism. Accordingly, the Presbyterian Church plunged into irrelevance.
Nevertheless, even as the denomination founders, the governing body babbles in political tongues on vital topics like Israeli security. Don’t listen.
Earl H. Tilford, Jr. Grove City College
A fundamental question
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
How can the denomination that is given credit for perfecting democratic principles allow a radical minority to force an extremist agenda on a proven majority?
This question demands an answer.
Douglas Anderson
Gays in leadership positions ‘is a conspiracy’
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I believe that this whole business about gays being included in leadership positions in the church is a conspiracy. Their aim is not only to be included, but also to destroy a 2,000 year-old Body of Christ.
It appears that they now have their foot in the door. Once in the door, the fox now has control of the hen house. The church, which includes us Presbyterians, will split into factions, thus destroying the church as a whole. We already have More Light Presbyterians and those who represent Confessing Churches. Already, our church in Florida has split. Our minister has been asked to resign.
This is only the beginning.God help us.
Bill Marsh First Presbyterian Church
Where are we heading?
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
Whoever let this person or anyone like him be the keynote speaker at any Presbyterian meeting, much less the General Assembly?
Where are we heading?
Paul Hyder
Seriously thinking of leaving the denomination
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
The denomination is going to you-know-where in a handbag.
Do you know of any good Confessing Churches or Evangelical Presbyterian Churches in the Detroit metro area? I live in Royal Oak, and the Detroit Presbytery is so liberal that we’re seriously thinking of leaving the denomination.
Liz Gardiner, Elder First Presbyterian Church
Overpopulation?
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I wish we had the problem of overpopulation in the Presbyterian church.
The world may be overpopulated now, but it is not by Presbyterians.
David Hankins
About the fair trade article
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
As someone who made purchases in the Global Marketplace, I’m not exactly sure what The Layman means by putting quotes around anything that seems to be “PC” (“politically correct” or “Presbyterian Church,” take your pick). Terms like free trade, justice, working in a sweatshop, fair wages, benefits and treatment were regularly put in quotes as though they were somehow being disingenuously used. I’m not quite sure what The Layman means by that action. Is it that The Layman disagrees with these aims? Is it that The Layman believes these aims are not fulfilled by taking these actions?
Many in this church are looking for reasons not to take The Layman seriously. They look for reasons to call evangelicals heartless and cold, indifferent to the suffering and needs of others. If we are to have a voice in the church for orthodoxy, surely we must follow through with orthopraxy.
Let’s practice what we preach: Right beliefs produce right actions. Undermining the efforts of those who are attempting to legally bypass unfair economic conditions is far from right actions, and calls into question the integrity of our evangelical and Reformed belief system.
Deacon Chris Larimer Holston Presbytery
Oft-repeated claim that those who leave the PCUSA abandon the faith
Posted Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I am responding to the often-made claim that the people who leave the PCUSA leave Christianity or at least the organized Church (Ekklesia).
I do not know what the source of this data is. In our church, First Presbyterian Church of Royal Oak, they never do an exit interview. Any letter written to explain the reasons that the person is leaving is not even forwarded to the Session. I think the moderator decides what they see.
All the people I know that left (there have been many) left to go to churches that believe that the Bible is the inerrant, inspired Word of God and not the socially acceptable, politically correct, multiple choice interpretation book that seems to be the predominant view of the Bible in the Presbytery of Detroit and some other presbyteries.
It is interesting that the official Presbyterian magazine never publishes anything that is opposed to the liberal viewpoint. In communist and other totalitarian organizations, this is called censorship. In the , this is accepted in Louisville as the way to maintain “unity”.
Doug Hepner